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the Bible and a spherical earth? some never get tired to claim that the Bible had the shape of the earth correct all from the beginning, and that it was never suggesting a flat earth. they use mainly this quote to back up their claim:
The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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As with any ridiculous position (Defending the tobacco trade, downplaying manmade global warming etc) the power of perpetuating it is to create confusion and plant doubt. Spurious attempts to re-interpret translations, asking questions rather than giving answers etc. Its actually a common tactic on this forum particularly from those with multiple personality disorder. Glug, glug like a mug | |
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Mmmmmm, this is going to be fun.
GeorgeWBush said: some never get tired to claim that the Bible had the shape of the earth correct all from the beginning, and that it was never suggesting a flat earth. they use mainly this quote to back up their claim:
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers" but a sphere is not a circle. simple. and obvious. so if the author meant sphere, then why not write "sphere"? LOL, you're about to claim the Bible says the earth is flat and has edges, yet you start with a "circular" reference. No wonder I didn't vote for you! By the way, if you look at a shpere from above, what does it look like? however, even if there is some translation problem involved, there are plenty of other Bible passages to remove any doubt, that the Hebrews always thought the world to be flat.
Job 38:12-13 "take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it" where can one locate edges on a sphere? That's a metaphor, obviously. If one were to "shake the wicked" out of a sphere, exactly what would one write? "He kicked the Earth like a soccer ball, in order to remove its wickedness"? Job 38:14 "The earth takes shape like clay under a seal"
so clay under a seal is shaped like a sphere? C'mon George - didn't they teach you at Phillips Academy what a simile is? Your Pops ought to get his money back! Psalms 136:6 "to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever"
spread out a sphere? you can spread out a pizza or someting other flat, but not a sphere. the author would have used balled up, gathered up, gathered together, or anything else but certainly not "spread out" No, really - Phillips Academy has done a horrible job! Reading comprehension is non-existent! The "earth" obviously refers to the land masses upon which we humans reside. Those land masses are indeed spread out. Psalms 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us"
how far exactly is the distance from the east to the west? on a spherical earth? This passage indicates that there is a limit to the directions east and west. impossible, on a sphere. This is one of my favorite passages. It talks about the forgiveness of sins. The distance between East and West is unmeasurable. So too is the distance from us by which God will remove our sins (and grant us forgiveness). So you are correct - the distance by which God will remove our sins from us IS unmeasurable. Maybe you DID get something out of Phillips after all! Samuel 2:10 "The Lord will judge the ends of the earth"
where exactly are the ends of as sphere? someone help me out please Gladly! There are no ends of the Earth. This is a rather illustrative way of saying, "You can't hide from the Lord's judgment". We use that phrase even today when we want to tell someone there is nowhere they can go to hide from us. Daniel 4:10-11 "I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth"
the midst of our spherical earth? well that would be inside molten dazzling hot magma George, George, George - won't you ever learn? You twisted the truth about Iraq, and now this. I'm sure it was an honest mistake (wink, wink) but you forgot to tell us the above passage was Nebuchadnezzer's recollection of a dream he had. That's right - there was no actual tree growing in the Earth's core. It was seen in a dream. This passage is where Nebuchadnezzer was asking for interpretaions of his dream. C'mon George - haven't you learned that misdirection only works for so long?!? those are just some excerpts, but there are much more phrases like that. so if the authors of the old testament were actually aware of the spherical shape of earth, then they knew pretty well how to hide their knowledge from others
so anyone who still claims, that the Bible suggests a spherical earth, must be either incompetent or totally ignorant on what the Bible really says. or of course he could also be a barefaced liar who does not care about the truth. [Edited 8/8/07 7:04am] I'm not making any claim about what the Bible says re: the Earth's shape, but it's obvious that you certainly can't effectively refute such claim if one is made. How did we elect you president - twice?!?  Second Funkiest White Man in America McCain = Bush = Failed policies. NO MORE! WWW.NIGHTRANGER.COM | |
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BTW, here is the full verse about Nebcuhadnezzer and his dream. I highlighted the good parts for ol' Georgie-Boy:
Second Funkiest White Man in America McCain = Bush = Failed policies. NO MORE! WWW.NIGHTRANGER.COM | |
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Just curious George - where did this woefully inadequate cut-and-paste job come from? I'd like to read more of their ramblings. Second Funkiest White Man in America McCain = Bush = Failed policies. NO MORE! WWW.NIGHTRANGER.COM | |
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The Hebrew word "chuwg" or "Circle" as translated to English means "Circle, circuit, compass". It means a round object in Hebrew, not a flat surface.
  "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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Well done Rodeo! | |
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rodman2 said: Well done Rodeo!
Thanks. I've been looking for that cut-and-paste article on the 'net, but no luck so far. Second Funkiest White Man in America McCain = Bush = Failed policies. NO MORE! WWW.NIGHTRANGER.COM | |
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RodeoSchro said: rodman2 said: Well done Rodeo!
Thanks. I've been looking for that cut-and-paste article on the 'net, but no luck so far. A real orger would cut&paste only, who does GeorgeW think he is!! "this especially prepared potato is called pomme de terre" | |
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m3taverse said: RodeoSchro said: Thanks. I've been looking for that cut-and-paste article on the 'net, but no luck so far. A real orger would cut&paste only, who does GeorgeW think he is!! Doesn't he know he's "Forbidden To Research"? There are lines to be toed damnit. Glug, glug like a mug | |
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SpecialEd said: m3taverse said: A real orger would cut&paste only, who does GeorgeW think he is!! Doesn't he know he's "Forbidden To Research"? There are lines to be toed damnit.   Racism is like an insidious virus, that no one has a cure for and can't be seen.....it just keeps reinfecting the weakest minds...
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RodeoSchro said: Mmmmmm, this is going to be fun.
Yes! 
GeorgeWBush said: some never get tired to claim that the Bible had the shape of the earth correct all from the beginning, and that it was never suggesting a flat earth. they use mainly this quote to back up their claim:
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers" but a sphere is not a circle. simple. and obvious. so if the author meant sphere, then why not write "sphere"? LOL, you're about to claim the Bible says the earth is flat and has edges, yet you start with a "circular" reference. well, that's the major problem with the Bible, it's self contradicting through and through  but not in this case, because a circle is in fact flat. and it has edges, you know, the border where the ship's fall down into space if they sail out to far so "circle" fits with the other Bible passages I posted. "sphere" however does not.
however, even if there is some translation problem involved, there are plenty of other Bible passages to remove any doubt, that the Hebrews always thought the world to be flat.
Job 38:12-13 "take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it" where can one locate edges on a sphere? That's a metaphor, obviously. If one were to "shake the wicked" out of a sphere, exactly what would one write? "He kicked the Earth like a soccer ball, in order to remove its wickedness"? yeah, right, you go the Eternalfacttwisters route now? the Bible is of course always correct and literal and scientific, only it it dows not fit with facts, then all of a sudden it's symbolic and a metaphor.  you know, I could claim that "circle" is also just a metaphor and not to be understood geometrically. but that's just useless speculation on both sides.
so you ask if one were to "shake the wicked" out of a sphere, exactly what would one write? well try this: "take the earth in his hands and shake the wicked out of it" where's the problem? there are countless possible wordings without mentioning misleading edges or soccer balls Job 38:14 "The earth takes shape like clay under a seal"
so clay under a seal is shaped like a sphere? C'mon George - didn't they teach you at Phillips Academy what a simile is? Your Pops ought to get his money back! you debate like a brainless monkey. well that would be a simile and one I got to hear quite often at Phillips Academy
however, similes are used to compare unlikely things but still to bring the attention to some similarity. in that case the similarity which the writer wanted to express was well... totally absent. so it's not a simile. it would only be a simile if the earth were in fact - flat. Psalms 136:6 "to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever"
spread out a sphere? you can spread out a pizza or someting other flat, but not a sphere. the author would have used balled up, gathered up, gathered together, or anything else but certainly not "spread out" No, really - Phillips Academy has done a horrible job! Reading comprehension is non-existent! The "earth" obviously refers to the land masses upon which we humans reside. Those land masses are indeed spread out. then why does the writer not write "land masses" but "earth"?
so yet another case for the Bible spin doctors to "explain" what God really meant with A when he wrote B instead. lame. Psalms 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us"
how far exactly is the distance from the east to the west? on a spherical earth? This passage indicates that there is a limit to the directions east and west. impossible, on a sphere. This is one of my favorite passages. It talks about the forgiveness of sins. The distance between East and West is unmeasurable. So too is the distance from us by which God will remove our sins (and grant us forgiveness). So you are correct - the distance by which God will remove our sins from us IS unmeasurable. Maybe you DID get something out of Phillips after all! that is a possible interpretation, I'll give you that, but still rather unklikley. again why didn't the writer simply say what he meant (or rather you), something like "the distance how far he will remove our sins is just as unmeasurable as the distance between between east and west". then the writer wouldn't need modern spin doctors yet again to "explain" things. but the way it is actually written in the Bible, it must have been quite confusing or rather misleading for poor ancient Hebrews, who shared the earth model of other surrounding cultures in that area at that time, namely a flat disc shaped earth. (see http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~j...iverse.htm and http://www.edwardtbabinsk...verse.html for example) So to the Hebrews the comparision between east and west would have not meant "unmeasurable" but rather "far far far away". makes more sense. I say. but you and me can speculate about it all day long, still it's save to say that you only come to your interpretation with your modern knowledge about earth's real shape. otherwise with a flat earth in mind, you would have read that passage exatly like the old Hebrews did. and exactly how it was meant to be
Samuel 2:10 "The Lord will judge the ends of the earth"
where exactly are the ends of as sphere? someone help me out please Gladly! There are no ends of the Earth. This is a rather illustrative way of saying, "You can't hide from the Lord's judgment". We use that phrase even today when we want to tell someone there is nowhere they can go to hide from us. so the ancient Hebrews had the same common and popular phrases like in modern day English? Say it ain't so, Joe!
but it's cool, I could even live with that explanation. if it was the only time the Bible talks about the ends of the earth. however, it is not: Deuteronomy 28:64 And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other Deuteronomy 33:17 with them he shall push the peoples, all of them, to the ends of the earth Job 28:24 For he looks to the ends of the earth, and sees everything under the heavens. Psalms 19:4-6 yet their voice goes out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him. Psalms 46:9 He makes wars cease to the end of the earth; he breaks the bow and shatters the spear, he burns the chariots with fire! Psalms 48:10 As thy name, O God, so thy praise reaches to the ends of the earth. Thy right hand is filled with victory; Psalms 59:13 consume them in wrath, consume them till they are no more, that men may know that God rules over Jacob to the ends of the earth Psalms 61:2 from the end of the earth I call to thee, when my heart is faint. Psalms 65:5 By dread deeds thou dost answer us with deliverance, O God of our salvation, who art the hope of all the ends of the earth, and of the farthest seas Isaiah 41:9 you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, "You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off" Jeremiah 51:16 When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth Mark 13:27 And then they will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. don't tell me! all of those are metaphors! correct?
a writer familiar with the sperhical earth would rather write "And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples all over earth" but hardly "from one end of the earth to the other". but if you ask, is it possible that in all of those cases it is really just a metaphor? possible? yes. I have no ways to disprove it, like you cannot disprove the literal approach. I just have my problems with it because it is only the easiest and lamest explanation: "if it contradicts facts it is always metaphorical. otherwise not". but the most tragic implication I see is this: the ability to read and understand the Bible correctly would be dependant from the current level of scientific knowledge! because without knowing earths real shape from scientisits, mankind had no method on how to determine which of the above Bible statements was a metaphor and which not! and scince science makes constant progress I wonder what other things are yet to be revealed? what will we find out about the meaning of certain Bible passages in the future, when science finally tells us how to interpret it correctly? 
but of course there are other Christains than the next best Creationist parat, evangelical fundamentalist or Bible literalist. and those Christains who are obviously more educated about their religion and who are quite aware of the Bibles history and origins, well those people do not think that the Bible is some infallible scientific or historical reference. they understand it. and they see other more important things in it, like for example a great moral guidebook, or certain parables and metaphors (horrah!) about the relation between God an mankind. and then all of a sudden no one gives a damn if it's described flat or spheric, it's simply not important. each Bible book was written in a specific period and within cultural and scientific framework, so naturally it holds the beliefs and views of the people from that society. that's simply it. Daniel 4:10-11 "I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth"
the midst of our spherical earth? well that would be inside molten dazzling hot magma George, George, George - won't you ever learn? You twisted the truth about Iraq, and now this. I'm sure it was an honest mistake (wink, wink) but you forgot to tell us the above passage was Nebuchadnezzer's recollection of a dream he had. That's right - there was no actual tree growing in the Earth's core. It was seen in a dream. This passage is where Nebuchadnezzer was asking for interpretaions of his dream. C'mon George - haven't you learned that misdirection only works for so long?!? ha, you think I was handed faulty information
but nope, it was no mistake. I knew it was a dream, that passage has even been dicussed by some folks in this forum in the past. but why does a dream change anything? it still indicates clearly how ancient Hebrews saw the world. let's say you had a dream last night, and you want it to be interpreted by your psychologist. and in that dream something fundamental like the earths shape changed, wouldn't that be some "detail" quite important to also know for the psychiatrist? hell, if in your dream you look in the mirror and suddenly have your hair combed over the other side, that could mean you're turning gay! so something essential like a remorphed earth should seem important enough for Nebuchadnezzer to point out, if he'S interested in learning the meaning of his dream those are just some excerpts, but there are much more phrases like that. so if the authors of the old testament were actually aware of the spherical shape of earth, then they knew pretty well how to hide their knowledge from others
so anyone who still claims, that the Bible suggests a spherical earth, must be either incompetent or totally ignorant on what the Bible really says. or of course he could also be a barefaced liar who does not care about the truth. I'm not making any claim about what the Bible says re: the Earth's shape, but it's obvious that you certainly can't effectively refute such claim if one is made. and you? can you effectively refute the claim that the Bible teaches a cubic earth? there is another part in Bible about the four corners of earth. I now decide to take this literal and not as a metaphor. I also choose "corner" as a translation and not "direction" or whtever else would be posssible from the original Hebrew. I can do all of this with the same right you or ED make your choices and interpretations. so if a circle can mean "sphere", than easily four corners can mean "cube". I know it's eight corners, but if one is looking on a cube from above...
so if we forget about what science tells us and just look at the scripture, the claim that the Bible teaches a cubic earth is just as valid and profound as the spheric one. and you can't refute it 
so let's quickly sum things up, what ED wants us to believe: there are dozens of Bible passages that could indicate a flat earth. but all of those are metaphors. and that we only know for sure because of science, which tells us about earths real shape. then there is one single passage, that with a wrong translation can be interpreted as sphere. and oh what a lucky concidence - that is the only time in the whole Bible that the shape of earth is mentioned not in metaphor but literal. again we only know this today because of science. ED claimed that the Bible always suggested the correct shape of earth. But yet hundreds of years in a period when Christianity was ruling Europe and the church and the Bible were shaping society and told people what they have to believe and not to believe, still practically everyone thought that the earth was flat. if EDs claim is correct, then were those people not able to read the Bible correctly? without the help of modern science? it seems so. but whatever the reason is, it's not really my obligation to refute that claim. simply because there is nothing to refute yet. ED would be the one who has to bring backup and solid evidence for his claim. but even then I could do exactly what you just did with my initial post, and just scream "mataphor!" to anything he says. if that is cool enough for you to refute me, then it's cool enough for me to refute ED, and come to think of it, to refute anything that is said in the Bible anywhere. bt whatever, he never is able to support his claims anywhere anyhow anyway, and the same in this situation. without backup such a claim exposes itself as balloney from the start, and it will self destruct anyway in 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 -1 . . . PS: you were right, that was fun [Edited 8/10/07 7:34am] The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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sadly you have been very much misinformed. once again. so let me help you.
Eternaldragon said: The Hebrew word "chuwg" or "Circle" as translated to English means "Circle, circuit, compass". It means a round object in Hebrew, not a flat surface. hello? ED? are you there? 1st grade geometry anyone? a CD or a pizza is flat and round. where is your problem? (except for education) circle: not a sphere 
circuit: also no sphere
compass: certainly not a sphere
cir·cuit –noun - not a sphere
1. an act or instance of going or moving around. - not a sphere 2. a circular journey or one beginning and ending at the same place; a round. - not a sphere 3. a roundabout journey or course. - not a sphere 4. a periodical journey from place to place, to perform certain duties, as by judges to hold court, ministers to preach, or salespeople covering a route. - not a sphere 5. the persons making such a journey. - not a sphere 6. the route followed, places visited, or district covered by such a journey. - not a sphere 7. the line going around or bounding any area or object; the distance about an area or object. - not a sphere 8. the space within a bounding line; district: the circuit of the valley. - not a sphere anyway, this was what "circuit" means taken from an English dictionary. irrelevant and no indication on the original Hebrew meaning of the word. that is plain silly ED, you can't translate a word from language A to B to C.... each time pick one of multiple possible meanings and expect to preserve the original meaning til the end but if that is your way of thinking, then it certainly can help in explaining, why you completely fail to understand the Bible.
but let's look at the facts and written scripture now. If the writer had meant for us to believe that the earth was round, he would have used the Hebrew word for "ball" which is "duwr". But he explicitly avoided this and used "chuwg" (circle) instead. And yes, Isaiah was familiar with that word, because he used it on other occasions (Isaiah 22:18) "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball (duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house." again a Bible author wrote A but meant B instead? and only scientific knowledge on the shape of the earth can help us to "understand" the Bible? if that wold be true, then it would be also time time to throw that book into the garbage, cause nothing can be trusted and noone can be ever sure what is really meant and written. why does God always "inspire" those "holy writers" to write things different than they mean it? seriously, that's pretty confusing. so we need spin doctors and fact twisters, to "explain" the contradicions away, in an hopeless attempt to still save the already sunken ship. but here's we've arrived at the point where ED will cease to analyse the facts or refute the evidence, but rather will shift the subject to something else or find any other welcome excuse on how to not answer and address the core problem The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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HiinEnkelte said: oh, don't laugh at Rodeo, that's a bit harsh. at least he tried his best and under the given circumstances he performed as good as possible. first the facts and the scripture are not on his side, so anything other than screaming "metaphor!" just won't work. and second, Rodeo is a Christian and repects God's commandments and can't tell you barfaced lies or present made up "evidence" like ED
so yes, considering this, he didn't do that badly [Edited 8/10/07 7:09am] The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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RodeoSchro said: Just curious George - where did this woefully inadequate cut-and-paste job come from? I'd like to read more of their ramblings.
www.karlrove.org now that I sadly can't get elected for another term, there is no need to continue that fake Born Again Christian masquerade. we alreadys got the votes of the evangelical Taliban wackos, now they can go and f*ck of The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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GeorgeWBush said: but let's look at the facts and written scripture now. If the writer had meant for us to believe that the earth was round, he would have used the Hebrew word for "ball" which is "duwr". But he explicitly avoided this and used "chuwg" (circle) instead. And yes, Isaiah was familiar with that word, because he used it on other occasions (Isaiah 22:18) "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball (duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house." again a Bible author wrote A but meant B instead? and only scientific knowledge on the shape of the earth can help us to "understand" the Bible? if that wold be true, then it would be also time time to throw that book into the garbage, cause nothing can be trusted and noone can be ever sure what is really meant and written. why does God always "inspire" those "holy writers" to write things different than they mean it? seriously, that's pretty confusing. so we need spin doctors and fact twisters, to "explain" the contradicions away, in an hopeless attempt to still save the already sunken ship. but here's we've arrived at the point where ED will cease to analyse the facts or refute the evidence, but rather will shift the subject to something else or find any other welcome excuse on how to not answer and address the core problem Would it make more sense to say that God sits above the "ball" of the Earth or that God sits above the "circuit" or "compass" or "circle" of the Earth? (Meaning he is everywhere at once). In your example it would read: Isaiah 40:22 "It is he who sits above the ball of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers" That makes no sense at all and would mean God is only at one place above the Earth. The idea of that passage is that God is everywhere above the Earth at any place, at any time. Hence the use of "chuwg" instead of the much lesser meaning word "duwr". Plain and simple, you are an idiot and trying very hard to fight against God. [Edited 8/10/07 8:08am] "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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GeorgeWBush said: HiinEnkelte said: oh, don't laugh at Rodeo, that's a bit harsh. at least he tried his best and under the given circumstances he performed as good as possible. first the facts and the scripture are not on his side, so anything other than screaming "metaphor!" just won't work. and second, Rodeo is a Christian and repects God's commandments and can't tell you barfaced lies or present made up "evidence" like ED
so yes, considering this, he didn't do that badly [Edited 8/10/07 7:09am] oooooh Rodeo's gonna get you good once again, i just bet! 
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GeorgeWBush said: some never get tired to claim that the Bible had the shape of the earth correct all from the beginning, and that it was never suggesting a flat earth. they use mainly this quote to back up their claim:
Isaiah 40:22 "It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers" but a sphere is not a circle. simple. and obvious. so if the author meant sphere, then why not write "sphere"? however, even if there is some translation problem involved, there are plenty of other Bible passages to remove any doubt, that the Hebrews always thought the world to be flat. Job 38:12-13 "take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it" where can one locate edges on a sphere? Job 38:14 "The earth takes shape like clay under a seal" so clay under a seal is shaped like a sphere? Psalms 136:6 "to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever" spread out a sphere? you can spread out a pizza or someting other flat, but not a sphere. the author would have used balled up, gathered up, gathered together, or anything else but certainly not "spread out" Psalms 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us" how far exactly is the distance from the east to the west? on a spherical earth? This passage indicates that there is a limit to the directions east and west. impossible, on a sphere. Samuel 2:10 "The Lord will judge the ends of the earth" where exactly are the ends of as sphere? someone help me out please Daniel 4:10-11 "I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth" the midst of our spherical earth? well that would be inside molten dazzling hot magma those are just some excerpts, but there are much more phrases like that. so if the authors of the old testament were actually aware of the spherical shape of earth, then they knew pretty well how to hide their knowledge from others
so anyone who still claims, that the Bible suggests a spherical earth, must be either incompetent or totally ignorant on what the Bible really says. or of course he could also be a barefaced liar who does not care about the truth. [Edited 8/8/07 7:04am] | |
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You know peole give Bush a lot bad talk when in fact if you are true belivers of the bible and the knowledge given to us that read Bush is doing one of the most bravest actions since the days of ols when the part of wars and rumors of wars is talked about and the how it will be peace for 7 years then we will see the changing , the big changing that is going to bring on the anti-christ when he went and took down Hussien the world had no real view of what that war was about on the surface it was said in a under tone type manner it was about oil that was just talk to over shadow this we are in a spritual war fare and in all your getting get understanding start reading revelation if you have children teach the signs of the second coming of Christ you are sitting here talking about the shape of the earth time to talk about your soul and where is it going when that time come listening to music checking out a web page it is good but be real with your self if you want to make the bible a topic of the day read are you aware when our founders started the court system they chose the bible as a piont of referrence to tell the truth becuase it is power in the word that go past all generations spce and time from the first court appereance to the last it will start by the bible place your right hand on the bible people need to open it sometimes and get the full view of life it is amazing how people from the start of life are still being talked about today what happen to the learning of God I am not trying to save the world but with my time on earth if I see anything written in any fourm dealing with the word I will say something you never know who it will help just seek first the kingdom of heaven and all things will be given unto thee and always put God first no matter what thru the good or the bad just pray what ever brought on this subject about the shape of the earth you did not expect to hear all this I know but hey if it is not for then the next person will get something out of it but on the real know the signs of the second coming of Jesus read Luke ,Mattew just read and see for your self because school is good college is great but if don't about the soul and how to take care of that then what good is your mind | |
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HiinEnkelte said: GeorgeWBush said: oh, don't laugh at Rodeo, that's a bit harsh. at least he tried his best and under the given circumstances he performed as good as possible. first the facts and the scripture are not on his side, so anything other than screaming "metaphor!" just won't work. and second, Rodeo is a Christian and repects God's commandments and can't tell you barfaced lies or present made up "evidence" like ED
so yes, considering this, he didn't do that badly [Edited 8/10/07 7:09am] oooooh Rodeo's gonna get you good once again, i just bet!
Actually, no I'm not. I had my fun and did it mainly to reinforce my own beliefs, plus try to inject a little humor. I generally agree with "GeorgeWBush" in matters political, but not in matters religious. He isn't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change his. Second Funkiest White Man in America McCain = Bush = Failed policies. NO MORE! WWW.NIGHTRANGER.COM | |
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loveslave said: You know peole give Bush a lot bad talk when in fact if you are true belivers of the bible and the knowledge given to us that read Bush is doing one of the most bravest actions since the days of ols when the part of wars and rumors of wars is talked about and the how it will be peace for 7 years then we will see the changing , the big changing that is going to bring on the anti-christ when he went and took down Hussien the world had no real view of what that war was about on the surface it was said in a under tone type manner it was about oil that was just talk to over shadow this we are in a spritual war fare and in all your getting get understanding start reading revelation if you have children teach the signs of the second coming of Christ you are sitting here talking about the shape of the earth time to talk about your soul and where is it going when that time come listening to music checking out a web page it is good but be real with your self if you want to make the bible a topic of the day read are you aware when our founders started the court system they chose the bible as a piont of referrence to tell the truth becuase it is power in the word that go past all generations spce and time from the first court appereance to the last it will start by the bible place your right hand on the bible people need to open it sometimes and get the full view of life it is amazing how people from the start of life are still being talked about today what happen to the learning of God I am not trying to save the world but with my time on earth if I see anything written in any fourm dealing with the word I will say something you never know who it will help just seek first the kingdom of heaven and all things will be given unto thee and always put God first no matter what thru the good or the bad just pray what ever brought on this subject about the shape of the earth you did not expect to hear all this I know but hey if it is not for then the next person will get something out of it but on the real know the signs of the second coming of Jesus read Luke ,Mattew just read and see for your self because school is good college is great but if don't about the soul and how to take care of that then what good is your mind
Well said, although a little hard to read. Second Funkiest White Man in America McCain = Bush = Failed policies. NO MORE! WWW.NIGHTRANGER.COM | |
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Eternaldragon said: Would it make more sense to say that God sits above the "ball" of the Earth or that God sits above the "circuit" or "compass" or "circle" of the Earth? (Meaning he is everywhere at once).
In your example it would read: Isaiah 40:22 "It is he who sits above the ball of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers" That makes no sense at all and would mean God is only at one place above the Earth. The idea of that passage is that God is everywhere above the Earth at any place, at any time. Hence the use of "chuwg" instead of the much lesser meaning word "duwr". Plain and simple, you are an idiot and trying very hard to fight against God. Ha! a flame  but yo boy, I'm not fighting God at all, another barefeaced lie of yours. it's really hard to keep track with uninhibited liars and sinners like you. so please do show me a phrase where I talk agaisnt God. but if you can't then shut the fuck up with your accusatiopns. boy, I do not even fight against the Bible. I only fight against dumbags who are simply too stupid to understand God's words and who twist and misuse scripture and misunderstand it for something it simply is not.
but whatever, no distraction. so you say that "the idea of that passage is that God is everywhere above the Earth at any place, at any time". you know what? I can agree on that! but then it does not tell us anything about astronomical circumstances like the shape of the earth, it's - again - only a metaphor, peacefully siding with all the other metaphors of ends, edges and corners. but if not here, then where does the Bible teach a spherical earth? now can you backup a claim (for once in your life!) or have I exposed another barefaced lie of yours? [Edited 8/10/07 9:04am] The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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HiinEnkelte said: oooooh Rodeo's gonna get you good once again, i just bet!
again? but as you can see, he's not. he gave up and obviously accepted that I was right all alongThe enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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RodeoSchro said: HiinEnkelte said: oooooh Rodeo's gonna get you good once again, i just bet!
Actually, no I'm not. I had my fun and did it mainly to reinforce my own beliefs, plus try to inject a little humor. well said, same here but hey, that's what this forum is all about anyway, isn't it? no one ever changed anyones opinion in here. that. just .never. ever. happend.
I generally agree with "GeorgeWBush" in matters political, but not in matters religious.
He isn't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change his. ah we're probably not so far away anyway in our opinions. hey, I'm not even saysing it's 100 percent sure that the Bible teaches a flat earth. very likely, but no absoulte certainty. but it also doesn't teach a spherical earth. and whatever it says about the shape, that's not what the Bible is made for, to get scientific data out of it, and I am almost sure you agree on this. that was the point of this thread and debunking ED's silly claim. The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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GeorgeWBush said: again? but as you can see, he's not. he gave up and obviously accepted that I was right all alongKind of hard to argue with one who makes idiotic claims and then ignores the clear words that are written. The clear meaning that the scripture wants to get across. God does not sit at one place above the "ball" of the Earth. Ignoring you is more like dusting your feet off from those that refuse to hear or learn and moving on. "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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Eternaldragon said: Kind of hard to argue with one who makes idiotic claims and then ignores the clear words that are written. The clear meaning that the scripture wants to get across.
which words did I ignore? you are ignoring the clear word called "circle". and you made the idiotic claim without any backup! so where does the Bible teach a spherical earth? you can't find something? I thought so. [Edited 8/10/07 9:25am] The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology. - Michael Parenti | |
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GeorgeWBush said: HiinEnkelte said: oooooh Rodeo's gonna get you good once again, i just bet!
again? but as you can see, he's not. he gave up and obviously accepted that I was right all alongdang! i thought it was going to be some good ol' raucous fun in here for a while.  Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Myth Making Moonbattery of Obamanation. DISSENT FROM DAY ONE Pround member of the .org conservative union | |
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HiinEnkelte said: GeorgeWBush said: again? but as you can see, he's not. he gave up and obviously accepted that I was right all alongdang! i thought it was going to be some good ol' raucous fun in here for a while. but i will add this: that Christians supposedly believed in a flat earth before science came along in the middle ages is just bunk. and that Copernicus unsettled Christians by showing them that the earth goes around the sun rather than vice versa is also just bunk. such copernican theories that were better models for describing the motions of the heavenly bodies was only a threat to the aristotelians. Check out the 'mediocrity principle' or the 'Copernicus principle'. Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Myth Making Moonbattery of Obamanation. DISSENT FROM DAY ONE Pround member of the .org conservative union | |
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HiinEnkelte said: GeorgeWBush said: again? but as you can see, he's not. he gave up and obviously accepted that I was right all alongdang! i thought it was going to be some good ol' raucous fun in here for a while. Watch it, pal. I might have to dump some analogies on you! Second Funkiest White Man in America McCain = Bush = Failed policies. NO MORE! WWW.NIGHTRANGER.COM | |
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