Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

[...]

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. [...] In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

[...]

But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

[...]

Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

[...]

John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor - 8, Service Crosses - 42, Silver Stars - 590, Bronze Stars - 958 and Purple Hearts - 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

[...]

Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

[...]

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander.

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

I'm not voting for McCain either, though i do not doubt his hero status.

superman said:

How does one obtain "hero status"? By serving in a war and making it through? Or by serving and getting captured by the enemy?

Seriously, McCain was no hero. What's the definition of a hero? Let's look at Websters.

1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4. Classical Mythology. a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.

I do not see McCain in there. He was in the military, he was sent to war, he got shot down, he became a prisoner, he was released. How does that make him a hero? Whose life did he save, risking his own? Did he do something outstanding that distinguishes him from other men in the service? I don't think so. I don't by into all this "you're military, you're automatically rewarded hero status"-crap.
[Edited 8/20/08 5:26am]

MrSoulpower said:

Much to the contract, I have heard many describe John McCain in such a way that your (or Websters) #1 would wholly apply.

Not just those with whom he has served in the Navy, but also those with whom he has served in the Senate.

I heard and read about this the other day. There is alot of people that question John McCain's whole war story. And since I can't Republicans, I am going to question John McCain's war story.

JellyBean said:

Luckily, he doesn't need ya'll to believe his war story. If you look at the narrative that has been presented about his war story, it has been by others.

McCain will rarely discuss it.

And Luckly, most of ya'll on this site represent the fringe left. If you represented the actual populous of the nation, I would be nervous.

seekingtruth said:

i've heard that term a lot - can you tell us what you mean by that?

IrresistibleB1tch said:

I think it means we are unique.

shanti0608 said:

JellyBean said:

Luckily, he doesn't need ya'll to believe his war story. If you look at the narrative that has been presented about his war story, it has been by others.

McCain will rarely discuss it.

And Luckly, most of ya'll on this site represent the fringe left. If you represented the actual populous of the nation, I would be nervous.

seekingtruth said:

it's y'all.

superman said:

How does one obtain "hero status"? By serving in a war and making it through? Or by serving and getting captured by the enemy?

Seriously, McCain was no hero. What's the definition of a hero? Let's look at Websters.

1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4. Classical Mythology. a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.

I do not see McCain in there. He was in the military, he was sent to war, he got shot down, he became a prisoner, he was released. How does that make him a hero? Whose life did he save, risking his own? Did he do something outstanding that distinguishes him from other men in the service? I don't think so. I don't by into all this "you're military, you're automatically rewarded hero status"-crap.
[Edited 8/20/08 5:26am]

Speaking from the fringe left, first of all I have problems with this story. I would like proof of the claims in it. Second, unless this person still knows McClain today, how can he speak on his temperment and whether or not McCain is a religious man

Stymie said:

Come on Stymie.... you are making us fringers look bad, you cannot ask for proof of something?? You know better than that.

Yes, proof would be good but luckily we are just the minority here on the org.
Thank goodness no one else thinks like us in the REAL world.



[Edited 8/20/08 6:33am]

Speaking from the fringe left, first of all I have problems with this story. I would like proof of the claims in it. Second, unless this person still knows McClain today, how can he speak on his temperment and whether or not McCain is a religious man

IrresistibleB1tch said:

I think it means we are unique.

shanti0608 said:

Good. Because I thought that he was talking about my clothes or something. I do have a fringe on my left shoulder...

MrSoulpower said:

Much to the contract, I have heard many describe John McCain in such a way that your (or Websters) #1 would wholly apply.

Not just those with whom he has served in the Navy, but also those with whom he has served in the Senate.

J


Luckily, he doesn't need ya'll to believe his war story. If you look at the narrative that has been presented about his war story, it has been by others.

McCain will rarely discuss it.

superman said:

How does one obtain "hero status"? By serving in a war and making it through? Or by serving and getting captured by the enemy?

Seriously, McCain was no hero. What's the definition of a hero? Let's look at Websters.

1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4. Classical Mythology. a. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
b. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
c. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.

I do not see McCain in there. He was in the military, he was sent to war, he got shot down, he became a prisoner, he was released. How does that make him a hero? Whose life did he save, risking his own? Did he do something outstanding that distinguishes him from other men in the service? I don't think so. I don't by into all this "you're military, you're automatically rewarded hero status"-crap.
[Edited 8/20/08 5:26am]

I think it takes courage and ability to survive torture for years in a POW camp.

It is the deeds that McCain has done since that time, especially denying the torture of others, that has diminished his status.

This guy does nothing to convince me further being a "longtime acquaintance". Frankly it sounds like something Jerome Corsi would drum up.

seekingtruth said:

You're kiddin', right? He's blasting his stories all over, like he's suffering from post combat syndrom. Didn't you watch the Saddleback Forum? References to his POW experience were everywhere, including his little made up story about the cross in the sand.

Get with it, John. The Vietnam War is over and history like the Nguyen Dynasty.

MrSoulpower said:

you claimed the cross in the sane story is from The Gulag Archipelago. It isn't. It isn't anywhere to be found in the book.
So I guess that makes you, by your standards, a what?...a liar?