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Thread started 09/11/08 9:20pm

jw1914

Should true christians vote?

Did the first century christian partake in the selection of the world rulers at that time? When asked by his opponents "Are you the king of the jews?" how did Jesus respond? What are we asking for when we pray this part of the Lord'd prayer;"Our father let thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven"? Hit me back christian voters.

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Reply #1 posted 09/11/08 9:30pm

Imago

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I'm really not sure what a 'true' Christian is. Some people claim to be true Christians, because they are tolerant (even of homosexuality), and believe that "God is all good, etc. etc. etc.", and others like Fred Phelps think they are true Christians because they follow scripture to the tee--or as they see it.

Hell, protestants and Catholics have differing views on who true Christians are. lol


To me, I don't care what religion a person subscribes to, I'd prefer the person to put science and reason before religious dogma and vote in a secular manner. It scares me that the nation has moved backwards in that regards in the last 15 years (yes, it started happening before Bush folks rolleyes).

I mean, look--faith is great. But when you start fucking with Biology curriculums and erect a multi-million dollar 'Creationists' museum, I can only give you one reaction:



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I need your suggestions QUICKLY!!!: http://prince.org/msg/3/290561

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Reply #2 posted 09/11/08 9:35pm

Stymie

I absolutely believe true christians should vote.

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Reply #3 posted 09/11/08 9:45pm

meow85

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What does religion have to do with it? And who decides what a "true" Christian is? It is not only the right, but the responsibility IMO for a citizen of a democratic country not just to cast their vote, but to educate themselves enough about the issues and the candidates to make an informed decision. What you do or don't worship shouldn't come into play.

That whole nonsense of competing over who gets to call themselves a "true" Christian is nothing but a theological pissing contest, anyway.

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber. batman
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Reply #4 posted 09/11/08 11:04pm

roodboi

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people of faith, any faith, should feel free to vote or not vote as they feel led to do...

meow85 said:

What does religion have to do with it?

for a devoutly religous person, it has everything to do with it...their faith influences most, if not all, of their decisions....

imago said:

To me, I don't care what religion a person subscribes to, I'd prefer the person to put science and reason before religious dogma and vote in a secular manner. It scares me that the nation has moved backwards in that regards in the last 15 years (yes, it started happening before Bush folks ).

while I certainly know exactly where you're coming from, I think it's a lil' unfair asking somebody to not vote based on their beliefs, wether that belief be secular or spiritual...I mean, thats why we vote to begin with, right? because we believe in something?...for some folks, an idea or plan of action is based on a belief...for others, a belief is based on an idea or plan of action...shrug

"Son of a biscuit....my ancestors spit on your haircut!"
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Reply #5 posted 09/11/08 11:12pm

meow85

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roodboi said:

people of faith, any faith, should feel free to vote or not vote as they feel led to do...

meow85 said:

What does religion have to do with it?

for a devoutly religous person, it has everything to do with it...their faith influences most, if not all, of their decisions....

imago said:

To me, I don't care what religion a person subscribes to, I'd prefer the person to put science and reason before religious dogma and vote in a secular manner. It scares me that the nation has moved backwards in that regards in the last 15 years (yes, it started happening before Bush folks ).

while I certainly know exactly where you're coming from, I think it's a lil' unfair asking somebody to not vote based on their beliefs, wether that belief be secular or spiritual...I mean, thats why we vote to begin with, right? because we believe in something?...for some folks, an idea or plan of action is based on a belief...for others, a belief is based on an idea or plan of action...shrug


But the question still remains -who decides what make a "true" Christian? And why should a person's beliefs lead them to not vote at all?

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber. batman
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Reply #6 posted 09/12/08 12:13am

SUPRMAN

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jw1914 said:

Did the first century christian partake in the selection of the world rulers at that time? When asked by his opponents "Are you the king of the jews?" how did Jesus respond? What are we asking for when we pray this part of the Lord'd prayer;"Our father let thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven"? Hit me back christian voters.



Of course they should vote.
Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's. . . . .
First century Christians were not Romans, and could not vote for that reason, not because of their beliefs.
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

What are you praying for? For Jesus' return but as Jesus said in the Garden of Gethsemane, "Not my will but thy will be done."
We may want it but we will not demand it and will wait.
It doesn't mean crawl into a cave or be Amish about society. I don't mean Amish as a slur either. I admire the way they've maintained themselves and remain aware of the world around them.
[Edited 9/12/08 0:14am]

Meanwhile, civic knowledge is enhanced by discussing public affairs, taking part in civic activities and reading about current events and history, the group said.


Which is why we have P & R!
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Reply #7 posted 09/12/08 1:17am

Serious

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Stymie said:

I absolutely believe true christians should vote.

nod

Martina, now orgs official resident fairy/pixie biggrin
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Reply #8 posted 09/12/08 1:25am

Desire2006

What about when Jesus said that his Fathers Kingdom was no part of this world in the past, then, and still isnt down 2 today!! This means that all true followers of Christ should pledge allegiance 2 Gods Kingdom, not man made governments!! Gods Kingdom has all the right solutions 2 this worlds problems and has the best Laws and Rules for mankinds benefits!!!!

Jeremiah 10:23
Psalm 146:3

I suggest u all read just those 2 Scriptures!!!!

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Reply #9 posted 09/12/08 2:10am

meow85

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Desire2006 said:

What about when Jesus said that his Fathers Kingdom was no part of this world in the past, then, and still isnt down 2 today!! This means that all true followers of Christ should pledge allegiance 2 Gods Kingdom, not man made governments!! Gods Kingdom has all the right solutions 2 this worlds problems and has the best Laws and Rules for mankinds benefits!!!!

Jeremiah 10:23
Psalm 146:3

I suggest u all read just those 2 Scriptures!!!!


By that reasoning, it's perfectly acceptable to break secular laws if they aren't in compliance with religious ones. Are you suggesting that someone who considers themself a Christian be allowed to do so, or that God approves of disobeying secular laws? As for the "Kingdom" you refer to, that's generally understood to include all of Creation, not just the select few who attend a particular church, so your argument is moot.
[Edited 9/12/08 2:11am]

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber. batman
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Reply #10 posted 09/12/08 2:34am

Desire2006

Of course not!! All True Christians should obey the Laws of the land(If traffic Laws were broken, for example, just think what chaos there would b on the roads, not 2 mention loss of life!!), and ALL True Christians have 2 pay taxes because these taxes go towards services that all citizens need like garbage disposal, upkeep of roads, schools, hospitals, even paying for courts and the judicial systems of whatever country u live in!!

But, when any Government tells True Christians 2 do something that is Contrary 2 what Gods commands are, then True Christins obey Gods Laws rather than man made Governments Laws(Like for example God has told True Christians that they have an obligation 2 go out and tell everyone that His New Righteous System is coming on this Earth very soon and that all true Christians should go out and save as many lives as possible, before God destroys this old system we live in,as well as all the wicked people, then we have 2 obey the Higher Command of God, rather than man).

Also, when God created the first Human Pair, Adam & Eve, ther was only ONE Kingdom around at the time - Gods Kingdom!! It was only when Adam & Eve failed the test of Obedience that the lifeline between God and Mankind was severed, hence all these man-made Governments now!!

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Reply #11 posted 09/12/08 3:15am

cella123456

For those who believe that Jesus is already the anointed king,,,,Why vote for someone else when the kindom has already been established? A little treasonable ,,isn't it?

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Reply #12 posted 09/12/08 4:14am

Shawnt25

cella123456 said:

For those who believe that Jesus is already the anointed king,,,,Why vote for someone else when the kindom has already been established? A little treasonable ,,isn't it?


People are voting for the President of the United States, not for the leadership of the Kingdom of Heaven. If this election is for the leadership of the Kingdom of Heaven, then Jesus' needs some new PR people because I didn't know he was running.

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Reply #13 posted 09/12/08 4:18am

eaglebear4839

condense your comment and resubmit it in the morning, only make it a legitimate question.

"Worry is using your imagination for fear..." author unknown.

To sign a petition protesting Prop 8, visit the following link: http://www.couragecampaig...epealprop8

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Reply #14 posted 09/12/08 4:28am

Serious

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IMO it's everyone's responsibility to vote. Political leaders such as Hitler cannot always be avoided, but I will try my best with my vote to avoid political leaders that are bad for my country and/or the world. Here in Austria we have elections coming up and the party who evolved out of Hitler's nazi-party is likely to gain many votes. IMO that's my responsibility as a christian and as a person to go and vote. IMO it's ignorant to not care about that responsibilty.

Martina, now orgs official resident fairy/pixie biggrin
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Reply #15 posted 09/12/08 5:30am

NancyMoonbeam

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Yes 'true' christians should vote. Even though they are mentally ill to a degree,in my opinion.

"when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."
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Reply #16 posted 09/12/08 5:44am

LittleRedCorve
tte

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"Should true Christians vote?"

My first thought is, define a true Christian.

As someone who puts God first in all things, I will be voting. By voting, it does not mean I am putting my faith in a government, or pledging an allegiance to a government. It is simply me discerning who I think will uphold the values, morals, and ideas that I hold. To me, it is a responsibility toward ensuring that the people in our country, and all around the world, will be treated in a respected and dignified manner by an employee that I am essentially hiring through my vote.

Sometimes, the best employee is not hired, and personal rights and freedoms can be impinged upon by that employee's decisions. The past 8 years are a perfect example. At any time, a president can decide to over-ride certain rights that we hold dear, including the right to religious freedom. While at one time I would have thought that impossible, given the situation over these last 8 years, it almost seems inevitable. Imagine, by not voting, someone is voted into office who decides that no one, regardless of religion, has the right to turn down military service. Imagine, by not voting, the elected president decides that all children must pray in schools in a manner they deem appropriate, regardless of that child's religion. Sure, congress can step in and attempt to over-ride him, but as we've seen in the past 8 years, this doesn't always work in the way we would like for it to work.

Desire2006 said:

But, when any Government tells True Christians 2 do something that is Contrary 2 what Gods commands are, then True Christins obey Gods Laws rather than man made Governments Laws(Like for example God has told True Christians that they have an obligation 2 go out and tell everyone that His New Righteous System is coming on this Earth very soon and that all true Christians should go out and save as many lives as possible, before God destroys this old system we live in,as well as all the wicked people, then we have 2 obey the Higher Command of God, rather than man).


When we do not vote, we are allowing others to decide for us, what kind of government that is elected, including a government that may step in and ignore religious freedom, and the right to practice the chosen religion in the way that religion has deemed as appropriate practice. What I mean is, by not discerning which candidate will uphold religious freedoms and voting to ensure that candidate is elected, we are then at the mercy of those that may decide and define what appropriate practice is acceptable and may then elect into office a candidate that would infringe on your ability and freedom to follow God's Law as you have interpreted it. What would happen if an official was elected into office that decided that anyone who was going door to door to preach God's Word was thereby infringing on other's rights of religious freedom, and door to door preaching was then made to be illegal, and punishable by increments (first time, jail time, second time, prison time, third time, life sentence with parole, fourth time, execution)? Pretty soon, there would be no one out there preaching God's Word, and eventually your chosen religion would die out in the U.S. because you know you would not stop even after life with parole, and if everyone is then executed, you are not obeying God's Law to continue preaching His word. By voting, you are ensuring that your religious rights continue so that you can continue to practice your Faith, and go door to door to preach to others the good news.

By voting, you are not putting your country first, or another person first, you are merely hiring an employee to do a job that you feel would best meet the needs of everyone around you, including yourself.

God comes first to me, always will. By voting, I am in no way neglecting God, or putting God second, I am simply ensuring the rights and freedoms to live in the way that feels right to me are able to continue so that I can continue to practice my Faith as I choose to.

ing one day about racial prejudice, Paramahansa Yogananda said, "God is not pleased to be insulted when He wears His dark suits."
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Reply #17 posted 09/12/08 5:46am

Stymie

It's funny, the government takes taxes from everyone, religious or not, yet people don't vote because of their religion, even when that money is used to fund things like war and abortion.

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Reply #18 posted 09/12/08 5:50am

thepope2the9s

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cella123456 said:

For those who believe that Jesus is already the anointed king,,,,Why vote for someone else when the kindom has already been established? A little treasonable ,,isn't it?


Didnt jesus say his kingdom is not of this world? He spoke of a heavenly kingdom.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful WORKS OF DARKNESS, but rather EXPOSE THEM.. Ephesians 5:11"
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Reply #19 posted 09/12/08 6:32am

NancyMoonbeam

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Stymie said:

It's funny, the government takes taxes from everyone, religious or not, yet people don't vote because of their religion, even when that money is used to fund things like war and abortion.



Religious organisations are tax exempt on a hell of a lot of there earnings ? maybe they should not get a vote ? certainly the preachers etc ?

"when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."
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Reply #20 posted 09/12/08 6:45am

Dayclear

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Yes, everybody should vote

If God one day struck me blind, your beauty I'd still see
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Reply #21 posted 09/12/08 6:49am

Mach

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moderator

jw1914 said:

Did the first century christian partake in the selection of the world rulers at that time? When asked by his opponents "Are you the king of the jews?" how did Jesus respond? What are we asking for when we pray this part of the Lord'd prayer;"Our father let thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven"? Hit me back christian voters.


define a true Christian

seriously

define a true Christian

chatterbox
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Reply #22 posted 09/12/08 6:51am

Efan

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NancyMoonbeam said:

Stymie said:

It's funny, the government takes taxes from everyone, religious or not, yet people don't vote because of their religion, even when that money is used to fund things like war and abortion.



Religious organisations are tax exempt on a hell of a lot of there earnings ? maybe they should not get a vote ? certainly the preachers etc ?


Those individuals--priests, preachers, etc.--do pay taxes. They have every right to vote.

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Reply #23 posted 09/12/08 7:27am

jw1914

Mach said:

jw1914 said:

Did the first century christian partake in the selection of the world rulers at that time? When asked by his opponents "Are you the king of the jews?" how did Jesus respond? What are we asking for when we pray this part of the Lord'd prayer;"Our father let thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven"? Hit me back christian voters.


define a true Christian

seriously

define a true Christian

Simply put it means to be "Christ-like". A true christian would have to know Christ if he or she is to live their lives christ-like. Being a true christian envolves more than being a member of a religious organization. It intales living ones life as Lord Jesus Christ commands us to do, even if that intales going against our own wishes.

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Reply #24 posted 09/12/08 7:32am

NancyMoonbeam

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Efan said:

NancyMoonbeam said:




Religious organisations are tax exempt on a hell of a lot of there earnings ? maybe they should not get a vote ? certainly the preachers etc ?


Those individuals--priests, preachers, etc.--do pay taxes. They have every right to vote.


Ok your probably right on an individual level - however, religions as organisations get away with massive tax relief.
Actualy I may start one -- seems like a great business as the punters dont ask any questions and keep on paying !?

"when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."
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Reply #25 posted 09/12/08 7:36am

jw1914

Now again this is for those who consider themselves christains and vote. Here are a list of scriptures for you to read; Ps. 146:3,4, !john 5:19, Jer. 10:23, Eccl. 8:9, 2 tim. 3:1-4,

Littleredcorvette, trust assure Almighty God would never allow any government to stop his plans. Remember they tried to ban christianity many years ago.

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Reply #26 posted 09/12/08 7:45am

RodeoSchro

I am no Christian expert, but I do not recall Jesus ever condemning government. He did say "Render unto Caesar what it Caesar's" which seems to imply that paying taxes to the government was not a concept that Jesus condemned.

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Reply #27 posted 09/12/08 7:45am

jw1914

LittleRedCorvette said:

"Should true Christians vote?"

My first thought is, define a true Christian.

As someone who puts God first in all things, I will be voting. By voting, it does not mean I am putting my faith in a government, or pledging an allegiance to a government. It is simply me discerning who I think will uphold the values, morals, and ideas that I hold. To me, it is a responsibility toward ensuring that the people in our country, and all around the world, will be treated in a respected and dignified manner by an employee that I am essentially hiring through my vote.

Sometimes, the best employee is not hired, and personal rights and freedoms can be impinged upon by that employee's decisions. The past 8 years are a perfect example. At any time, a president can decide to over-ride certain rights that we hold dear, including the right to religious freedom. While at one time I would have thought that impossible, given the situation over these last 8 years, it almost seems inevitable. Imagine, by not voting, someone is voted into office who decides that no one, regardless of religion, has the right to turn down military service. Imagine, by not voting, the elected president decides that all children must pray in schools in a manner they deem appropriate, regardless of that child's religion. Sure, congress can step in and attempt to over-ride him, but as we've seen in the past 8 years, this doesn't always work in the way we would like for it to work.

Desire2006 said:

But, when any Government tells True Christians 2 do something that is Contrary 2 what Gods commands are, then True Christins obey Gods Laws rather than man made Governments Laws(Like for example God has told True Christians that they have an obligation 2 go out and tell everyone that His New Righteous System is coming on this Earth very soon and that all true Christians should go out and save as many lives as possible, before God destroys this old system we live in,as well as all the wicked people, then we have 2 obey the Higher Command of God, rather than man).


When we do not vote, we are allowing others to decide for us, what kind of government that is elected, including a government that may step in and ignore religious freedom, and the right to practice the chosen religion in the way that religion has deemed as appropriate practice. What I mean is, by not discerning which candidate will uphold religious freedoms and voting to ensure that candidate is elected, we are then at the mercy of those that may decide and define what appropriate practice is acceptable and may then elect into office a candidate that would infringe on your ability and freedom to follow God's Law as you have interpreted it. What would happen if an official was elected into office that decided that anyone who was going door to door to preach God's Word was thereby infringing on other's rights of religious freedom, and door to door preaching was then made to be illegal, and punishable by increments (first time, jail time, second time, prison time, third time, life sentence with parole, fourth time, execution)? Pretty soon, there would be no one out there preaching God's Word, and eventually your chosen religion would die out in the U.S. because you know you would not stop even after life with parole, and if everyone is then executed, you are not obeying God's Law to continue preaching His word. By voting, you are ensuring that your religious rights continue so that you can continue to practice your Faith, and go door to door to preach to others the good news.

By voting, you are not putting your country first, or another person first, you are merely hiring an employee to do a job that you feel would best meet the needs of everyone around you, including yourself.

God comes first to me, always will. By voting, I am in no way neglecting God, or putting God second, I am simply ensuring the rights and freedoms to live in the way that feels right to me are able to continue so that I can continue to practice my Faith as I choose to.

Did Jesus himself not warn his followers that their very lives would be threatened if they continued to follow him? What did they do? That's real faith!!!

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Reply #28 posted 09/12/08 7:49am

jw1914

RodeoSchro said:

I am no Christian expert, but I do not recall Jesus ever condemning government. He did say "Render unto Caesar what it Caesar's" which seems to imply that paying taxes to the government was not a concept that Jesus condemned.

Yes you are exactly correct. True christians must pay their taxes, and no Jesus never comdemned the existing government of his time, nor did he attempt to overthrow it nor try to improve upon on it.

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Reply #29 posted 09/12/08 8:00am

jw1914

A tenant was given a 60 day notice that their apartment complex would be demolished and a new one would be built for the tenants. But this one tenant ignores this notice and takes his life's savings and begins to remodel his apartment. Foolish you say? True christains voting is the same.

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