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Thread started 10/03/08 2:07pm

HiinEnkelte

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Vatican Official Attacks U.S. Democrats as "Party of Death".

October 1st, 2008
Vatican official attacks U.S. Democrats as “party of death”

Posted by: Phil Stewart

Vatican officials seldom single out political leaders who differ with the Church on issues like abortion rights or embryonic stem cell research. But now that the Vatican’s highest court is led by an American, the former St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, we can expect things to get more explicit in Vatican City — at least when when it comes to U.S. politics.

Burke, who was named prefect of the Vatican’s Supreme Court of the Apostolic Signature in June, told the Italian Catholic newspaper Avvenire that the U.S. Democratic Party risked “transforming itself definitively into a party of death for its decisions on bioethical issues.” He then attacked two of the party’s most high profile Catholics — vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — for misrepresenting Church teaching on abortion.

He said Biden and Pelosi, “while presenting themselves as good Catholics, have presented Church doctrine on abortion in a false and tendentious way.”

Pelosi drew U.S. bishops’ scorn for saying in a television interview last month that the Church itself had long debated when human life begins. Biden is a practicing Catholic who also supports abortion rights and analysts have said he could help woo wavering Catholics into Obama’s fold. Both argue that they cannot impose their religious views on others.

Burke said pro-life Democrats were “rare” and that it saddened him that the party that helped “our immigrant parents and grandparents” prosper in America had changed so much over the years.

Burke made headlines as archbishop of St. Louis for his public attacks on public figures who strayed from Catholic teaching. He suggested during the 2004 presidential campaign that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic, should be denied communion because of his views on abortion. Several bishops said at the time they would not give him communion and the media staked out churches where he attended Mass to see if he received it.

“Lately, I’ve noticed that other bishops are coming to this position,” Burke told Avvenire, which is owned by the Italian bishops’ conference.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, wrote a letter in 2004 to American bishops restating the Church position that a priest must refuse to distribute communion to a Catholic politician who supported abortion rights. But Burke lamented that the letter was never distributed.

Burke’s criticism isn’t limited to Democrats. Last year, he accused singer Sheryl Crow of being “a high profile proponent of the destruction of innocent lives” for defending a woman’s right to have an abortion and for being a proponent of stem cell research. He resigned as head of a children’s medical charity that featured the singer for a benefit concert.

Pope Benedict has been encouraging Catholic bishops to speak out more openly on public policy issues to make the Church’s voice heard. Any bets on when we’ll hear from Burke next?

http://blogs.reuters.com/...-of-death/

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Reply #1 posted 10/03/08 2:13pm

Stymie

Out of respect for Eric, Namepeace and Andrea, I will refrain from cursing on this thread. But honestly, the Catholic church shuffled priests who molested kids instead of turning them over to the police so I give less than two pumps and a stroke what they think about US Democrats.

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Reply #2 posted 10/03/08 2:15pm

ehuffnsd

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Stymie said:

Out of respect for Eric, Namepeace and Andrea, I will refrain from cursing on this thread. But honestly, the Catholic church shuffled priests who molested kids instead of turning them over to the police so I give less than two pumps and a stroke what they think about US Democrats.

i don't understand. aside from Abortion and Gay Rights the Church is more alligned with the Democratic party.

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Reply #3 posted 10/03/08 2:19pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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ehuffnsd said:

Stymie said:

Out of respect for Eric, Namepeace and Andrea, I will refrain from cursing on this thread. But honestly, the Catholic church shuffled priests who molested kids instead of turning them over to the police so I give less than two pumps and a stroke what they think about US Democrats.

i don't understand. aside from Abortion and Gay Rights the Church is more alligned with the Democratic party.

And yet they implicitly condone the party that revels in the bloodbaths of elective wars.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #4 posted 10/03/08 2:21pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Burke made headlines as archbishop of St. Louis for his public attacks on public figures who strayed from Catholic teaching. He suggested during the 2004 presidential campaign that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic, should be denied communion because of his views on abortion. Several bishops said at the time they would not give him communion and the media staked out churches where he attended Mass to see if he received it.

“Lately, I’ve noticed that other bishops are coming to this position,” Burke told Avvenire, which is owned by the Italian bishops’ conference.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, wrote a letter in 2004 to American bishops restating the Church position that a priest must refuse to distribute communion to a Catholic politician who supported abortion rights. But Burke lamented that the letter was never distributed.


This is religious blackmail.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #5 posted 10/03/08 2:22pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Stymie said:

Out of respect for Eric, Namepeace and Andrea, I will refrain from cursing on this thread. But honestly, the Catholic church shuffled priests who molested kids instead of turning them over to the police so I give less than two pumps and a stroke what they think about US Democrats.

Well the church was more interested in the public face they presented and did not want to risque the coffers going dry. They did this for decades, destroying many people's lives. They have no right to stand in moral outrage of ANYONE.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #6 posted 10/03/08 2:23pm

ehuffnsd

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

ehuffnsd said:


i don't understand. aside from Abortion and Gay Rights the Church is more alligned with the Democratic party.

And yet they implicitly condone the party that revels in the bloodbaths of elective wars.

it's the problem when you put one issue as the piroity.

however most Catholics i know are long term democratic voters. JohnPaul II stacked the Curia and College of Cardnials with a bunch of ultraconservative nutcases in his 25 years as Pope. we have to wait a good 5-10 before a little more liberalism is back in the Curia.

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Reply #7 posted 10/03/08 2:23pm

ehuffnsd

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Burke made headlines as archbishop of St. Louis for his public attacks on public figures who strayed from Catholic teaching. He suggested during the 2004 presidential campaign that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic, should be denied communion because of his views on abortion. Several bishops said at the time they would not give him communion and the media staked out churches where he attended Mass to see if he received it.

“Lately, I’ve noticed that other bishops are coming to this position,” Burke told Avvenire, which is owned by the Italian bishops’ conference.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, wrote a letter in 2004 to American bishops restating the Church position that a priest must refuse to distribute communion to a Catholic politician who supported abortion rights. But Burke lamented that the letter was never distributed.


This is religious blackmail.


what the vatican says and what happens are different. there are nuns in Africa give out condoms.

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Reply #8 posted 10/03/08 2:24pm

ehuffnsd

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Stymie said:

Out of respect for Eric, Namepeace and Andrea, I will refrain from cursing on this thread. But honestly, the Catholic church shuffled priests who molested kids instead of turning them over to the police so I give less than two pumps and a stroke what they think about US Democrats.

Well the church was more interested in the public face they presented and did not want to risque the coffers going dry. They did this for decades, destroying many people's lives. They have no right to stand in moral outrage of ANYONE.

a few yes. the whole no.

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Reply #9 posted 10/03/08 2:25pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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ehuffnsd said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


And yet they implicitly condone the party that revels in the bloodbaths of elective wars.

it's the problem when you put one issue as the piroity.

however most Catholics i know are long term democratic voters. JohnPaul II stacked the Curia and College of Cardnials with a bunch of ultraconservative nutcases in his 25 years as Pope. we have to wait a good 5-10 before a little more liberalism is back in the Curia.

I know of no Catholics that vote Republican. My 85 year old Catholic grandmother didn't vote for Bush & she's not voting for McCain. I wish Catholic parishoners would take their faith back and stop allowing the church to dictate anything to them on how they are to believe.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #10 posted 10/03/08 2:25pm

Stymie

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Stymie said:

Out of respect for Eric, Namepeace and Andrea, I will refrain from cursing on this thread. But honestly, the Catholic church shuffled priests who molested kids instead of turning them over to the police so I give less than two pumps and a stroke what they think about US Democrats.

Well the church was more interested in the public face they presented and did not want to risque the coffers going dry. They did this for decades, destroying many people's lives. They have no right to stand in moral outrage of ANYONE.
You have to see Religulous if for nothing more than what they say about the Catholic church.

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Reply #11 posted 10/03/08 2:26pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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ehuffnsd said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


Well the church was more interested in the public face they presented and did not want to risque the coffers going dry. They did this for decades, destroying many people's lives. They have no right to stand in moral outrage of ANYONE.

a few yes. the whole no.

The powerful few, the ones calling the shots, the ones who are at the top. I believe most Catholics are very decent people. The heirarchy of the church I think is full of *)*##*%+@.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #12 posted 10/03/08 2:27pm

ehuffnsd

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

ehuffnsd said:


a few yes. the whole no.

The powerful few, the ones calling the shots, the ones who are at the top. I believe most Catholics are very decent people. The heirarchy of the church I think is full of *)*##*%+@.

a few yes the whole no.

Fight H8 Join the Impact Light up the Night
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Reply #13 posted 10/03/08 2:29pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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ehuffnsd said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


The powerful few, the ones calling the shots, the ones who are at the top. I believe most Catholics are very decent people. The heirarchy of the church I think is full of *)*##*%+@.

a few yes the whole no.

Well it's the few who are dictating policy and which people listen to and who pull stunts like trying to deny communion to elected leaders who's job is not to mandate their own beliefs on the public.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #14 posted 10/03/08 2:29pm

ehuffnsd

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Stymie said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


Well the church was more interested in the public face they presented and did not want to risque the coffers going dry. They did this for decades, destroying many people's lives. They have no right to stand in moral outrage of ANYONE.
You have to see Religulous if for nothing more than what they say about the Catholic church.

there is probably just as much child abuse in other religions as the Church, however the Church got caught and because of priestly celibacy and a very strong AntiCatholic undertone that has always exisited in America it became a big deal.

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Reply #15 posted 10/03/08 2:31pm

ehuffnsd

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

ehuffnsd said:


a few yes the whole no.

Well it's the few who are dictating policy and which people listen to and who pull stunts like trying to deny communion to elected leaders who's job is not to mandate their own beliefs on the public.

techincally the Most Holy Redeemer in SF should be shut down or the Pastor reasigned because of it's acceptance of gays. however the Archdiosese of SF turns a blind eye including the Archbishop. the former Archbishop is now a high ranking vatican offical. i should have been denied communion at my grandmothers funeral because the priest knew i was a praciticing homosexual but he gave it to me anyway.
[Edited 10/3/08 14:33pm]

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Reply #16 posted 10/03/08 2:37pm

Stymie

ehuffnsd said:

Stymie said:

You have to see Religulous if for nothing more than what they say about the Catholic church.

there is probably just as much child abuse in other religions as the Church, however the Church got caught and because of priestly celibacy and a very strong AntiCatholic undertone that has always exisited in America it became a big deal.
I know there is child molestation across the board, Eric. a strong anti-Catholic undertone is no excuse. Do you think that undertone may be because of the child abuse going on? Do any other faiths have a history of sending people off to other parishes for crimes? No, they don't.

People are faith are hypocrites. I am a hypocrite but my hypocrisy does not involve ruining the lives of others, covering it up and then not speaking out against it.

Many threads are started about Catholics in this forum and yet most of you remain silent on them. Wrong is wrong.

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Reply #17 posted 10/03/08 2:38pm

HiinEnkelte

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ehuffnsd said:

Stymie said:

You have to see Religulous if for nothing more than what they say about the Catholic church.

there is probably just as much child abuse in other religions as the Church,...


and the public schools, getting funded up the wazoo with taxpayer dollars.

Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Myth Making Moonbattery of Obamanation.

DISSENT FROM DAY ONE

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Reply #18 posted 10/03/08 2:39pm

Stymie

HiinEnkelte said:

ehuffnsd said:


there is probably just as much child abuse in other religions as the Church,...


and the public schools, getting funded up the wazoo with taxpayer dollars.
Huh?

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Reply #19 posted 10/03/08 2:39pm

ehuffnsd

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Stymie said:

ehuffnsd said:


there is probably just as much child abuse in other religions as the Church, however the Church got caught and because of priestly celibacy and a very strong AntiCatholic undertone that has always exisited in America it became a big deal.
I know there is child molestation across the board, Eric. a strong anti-Catholic undertone is no excuse. Do you think that undertone may be because of the child abuse going on? Do any other faiths have a history of sending people off to other parishes for crimes? No, they don't.

People are faith are hypocrites. I am a hypocrite but my hypocrisy does not involve ruining the lives of others, covering it up and then not speaking out against it.

Many threads are started about Catholics in this forum and yet most of you remain silent on them. Wrong is wrong.

i don't disagree with you Ivy.

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Reply #20 posted 10/03/08 2:40pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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ehuffnsd said:

Stymie said:

I know there is child molestation across the board, Eric. a strong anti-Catholic undertone is no excuse. Do you think that undertone may be because of the child abuse going on? Do any other faiths have a history of sending people off to other parishes for crimes? No, they don't.

People are faith are hypocrites. I am a hypocrite but my hypocrisy does not involve ruining the lives of others, covering it up and then not speaking out against it.

Many threads are started about Catholics in this forum and yet most of you remain silent on them. Wrong is wrong.

i don't disagree with you Ivy.


None of the catholics on this board, including you, should take any of our criticism to heart. We do not attack you or your faith. Just the wretched hypocritcal leaders at the top.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #21 posted 10/03/08 2:41pm

Stymie

ehuffnsd said:

Stymie said:

I know there is child molestation across the board, Eric. a strong anti-Catholic undertone is no excuse. Do you think that undertone may be because of the child abuse going on? Do any other faiths have a history of sending people off to other parishes for crimes? No, they don't.

People are faith are hypocrites. I am a hypocrite but my hypocrisy does not involve ruining the lives of others, covering it up and then not speaking out against it.

Many threads are started about Catholics in this forum and yet most of you remain silent on them. Wrong is wrong.

i don't disagree with you Ivy.
hug

I am sorry Eric, I am very passionate about my disdain for the catholic church.

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Reply #22 posted 10/03/08 2:43pm

lascantas

This is just par for the course.

Look at Mexico, if you want to see Catholicism in action.

This is why there needs to be a separation of church and state.

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Reply #23 posted 10/03/08 2:44pm

ehuffnsd

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Stymie said:

ehuffnsd said:


i don't disagree with you Ivy.
hug

I am sorry Eric, I am very passionate about my disdain for the catholic church.

no harm no foul my dear :dear:

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Reply #24 posted 10/03/08 2:44pm

roodboi

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"Son of a biscuit....my ancestors spit on your haircut!"
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Reply #25 posted 10/03/08 2:46pm

Stymie

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

ehuffnsd said:


i don't disagree with you Ivy.


None of the catholics on this board, including you, should take any of our criticism to heart. We do not attack you or your faith. Just the wretched hypocritcal leaders at the top.
I do not wish to make it personal but I will never for the life of me understand Catholic people as a whole on this stuff. Never as long as I have breath in my body.

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Reply #26 posted 10/03/08 2:46pm

ehuffnsd

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roodboi said:


the Spanish Inquisition started out as part of the more general Inquisition however it broke away and was not under the control of Rome.

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Reply #27 posted 10/03/08 2:47pm

ehuffnsd

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Stymie said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:



None of the catholics on this board, including you, should take any of our criticism to heart. We do not attack you or your faith. Just the wretched hypocritcal leaders at the top.
I do not wish to make it personal but I will never for the life of me understand Catholic people as a whole on this stuff. Never as long as I have breath in my body.

i'm not Catholic in faith.

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Reply #28 posted 10/03/08 2:49pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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ehuffnsd said:

Stymie said:

I do not wish to make it personal but I will never for the life of me understand Catholic people as a whole on this stuff. Never as long as I have breath in my body.

i'm not Catholic in faith.

in tradition?

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #29 posted 10/03/08 2:49pm

Stymie

ehuffnsd said:

Stymie said:

I do not wish to make it personal but I will never for the life of me understand Catholic people as a whole on this stuff. Never as long as I have breath in my body.

i'm not Catholic in faith.
No? by your posts I could have sworn your were.

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