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Thread started 10/05/08 1:02pm

HiinEnkelte

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Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools

Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools
By STANLEY KURTZ
Despite having authored two autobiographies, Barack Obama has never written about his most important executive experience. From 1995 to 1999, he led an education foundation called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC), and remained on the board until 2001. The group poured more than $100 million into the hands of community organizers and radical education activists.

The CAC was the brainchild of Bill Ayers, a founder of the Weather Underground in the 1960s. Among other feats, Mr. Ayers and his cohorts bombed the Pentagon, and he has never expressed regret for his actions. Barack Obama's first run for the Illinois State Senate was launched at a 1995 gathering at Mr. Ayers's home.

The Obama campaign has struggled to downplay that association. Last April, Sen. Obama dismissed Mr. Ayers as just "a guy who lives in my neighborhood," and "not somebody who I exchange ideas with on a regular basis." Yet documents in the CAC archives make clear that Mr. Ayers and Mr. Obama were partners in the CAC. Those archives are housed in the Richard J. Daley Library at the University of Illinois at Chicago and I've recently spent days looking through them.

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was created ostensibly to improve Chicago's public schools. The funding came from a national education initiative by Ambassador Walter Annenberg. In early 1995, Mr. Obama was appointed the first chairman of the board, which handled fiscal matters. Mr. Ayers co-chaired the foundation's other key body, the "Collaborative," which shaped education policy.

The CAC's basic functioning has long been known, because its annual reports, evaluations and some board minutes were public. But the Daley archive contains additional board minutes, the Collaborative minutes, and documentation on the groups that CAC funded and rejected. The Daley archives show that Mr. Obama and Mr. Ayers worked as a team to advance the CAC agenda.

One unsettled question is how Mr. Obama, a former community organizer fresh out of law school, could vault to the top of a new foundation? In response to my questions, the Obama campaign issued a statement saying that Mr. Ayers had nothing to do with Obama's "recruitment" to the board. The statement says Deborah Leff and Patricia Albjerg Graham (presidents of other foundations) recruited him. Yet the archives show that, along with Ms. Leff and Ms. Graham, Mr. Ayers was one of a working group of five who assembled the initial board in 1994. Mr. Ayers founded CAC and was its guiding spirit. No one would have been appointed the CAC chairman without his approval.

The CAC's agenda flowed from Mr. Ayers's educational philosophy, which called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism. In the mid-1960s, Mr. Ayers taught at a radical alternative school, and served as a community organizer in Cleveland's ghetto.

In works like "City Kids, City Teachers" and "Teaching the Personal and the Political," Mr. Ayers wrote that teachers should be community organizers dedicated to provoking resistance to American racism and oppression. His preferred alternative? "I'm a radical, Leftist, small 'c' communist," Mr. Ayers said in an interview in Ron Chepesiuk's, "Sixties Radicals," at about the same time Mr. Ayers was forming CAC.

CAC translated Mr. Ayers's radicalism into practice. Instead of funding schools directly, it required schools to affiliate with "external partners," which actually got the money. Proposals from groups focused on math/science achievement were turned down. Instead CAC disbursed money through various far-left community organizers, such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or Acorn).

Mr. Obama once conducted "leadership training" seminars with Acorn, and Acorn members also served as volunteers in Mr. Obama's early campaigns. External partners like the South Shore African Village Collaborative and the Dual Language Exchange focused more on political consciousness, Afrocentricity and bilingualism than traditional education. CAC's in-house evaluators comprehensively studied the effects of its grants on the test scores of Chicago public-school students. They found no evidence of educational improvement.

CAC also funded programs designed to promote "leadership" among parents. Ostensibly this was to enable parents to advocate on behalf of their children's education. In practice, it meant funding Mr. Obama's alma mater, the Developing Communities Project, to recruit parents to its overall political agenda. CAC records show that board member Arnold Weber was concerned that parents "organized" by community groups might be viewed by school principals "as a political threat." Mr. Obama arranged meetings with the Collaborative to smooth out Mr. Weber's objections.

The Daley documents show that Mr. Ayers sat as an ex-officio member of the board Mr. Obama chaired through CAC's first year. He also served on the board's governance committee with Mr. Obama, and worked with him to craft CAC bylaws. Mr. Ayers made presentations to board meetings chaired by Mr. Obama. Mr. Ayers spoke for the Collaborative before the board. Likewise, Mr. Obama periodically spoke for the board at meetings of the Collaborative.

The Obama campaign notes that Mr. Ayers attended only six board meetings, and stresses that the Collaborative lost its "operational role" at CAC after the first year. Yet the Collaborative was demoted to a strictly advisory role largely because of ethical concerns, since the projects of Collaborative members were receiving grants. CAC's own evaluators noted that project accountability was hampered by the board's reluctance to break away from grant decisions made in 1995. So even after Mr. Ayers's formal sway declined, the board largely adhered to the grant program he had put in place.

Mr. Ayers's defenders claim that he has redeemed himself with public-spirited education work. That claim is hard to swallow if you understand that he views his education work as an effort to stoke resistance to an oppressive American system. He likes to stress that he learned of his first teaching job while in jail for a draft-board sit-in. For Mr. Ayers, teaching and his 1960s radicalism are two sides of the same coin.

Mr. Ayers is the founder of the "small schools" movement (heavily funded by CAC), in which individual schools built around specific political themes push students to "confront issues of inequity, war, and violence." He believes teacher education programs should serve as "sites of resistance" to an oppressive system. (His teacher-training programs were also CAC funded.) The point, says Mr. Ayers in his "Teaching Toward Freedom," is to "teach against oppression," against America's history of evil and racism, thereby forcing social transformation.

The Obama campaign has cried foul when Bill Ayers comes up, claiming "guilt by association." Yet the issue here isn't guilt by association; it's guilt by participation. As CAC chairman, Mr. Obama was lending moral and financial support to Mr. Ayers and his radical circle. That is a story even if Mr. Ayers had never planted a single bomb 40 years ago.

Mr. Kurtz is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

http://online.wsj.com/art...65367.html

i watched as much as could stomach of 'Press the Meet' this morning, and it was just hilarious they way they tried to gloss over and dismiss the unrepentant terrorist Ayers issue as only a fringe, limited, and fleeting association.

How could Brokaw and these other talking heads fail to mention even The Chicago Annenberg Challenge?

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Reply #1 posted 10/05/08 1:09pm

2freaky4church
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http://www.rollingstone.c..._dog_palin

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Reply #2 posted 10/05/08 1:14pm

deebee

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The irony of posting this article is it actually raises my opinion and expectations of Obama! The CAC seems like it might well have been a very positive project.
biggrin

"Traveler, there is no path. You make the path by walking..." - Antonio Machado
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Reply #3 posted 10/05/08 1:16pm

HiinEnkelte

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2freaky4church1 said:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin


i stopped reading Rolling Stone when i hit puberty about 20 years ago.
a few years before i stopped reading MAD magazine altogether.

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Reply #4 posted 10/05/08 1:17pm

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

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hmmm

YES WE DID!!! President Barack Obama!!!

It's time to Speak On It, America!
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Reply #5 posted 10/05/08 1:20pm

HiinEnkelte

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deebee said:

The irony of posting this article is it actually raises my opinion and expectations of Obama! The CAC seems like it might well have been a very positive project.
biggrin


you might find it ironical, but i don't, even in light of this raising the esteem and expection that you have for obama.

i just want any opinion, not just for you but for america, to be based on an honest and thorough presentation of the facts by the media.

if it puts him at 70% approval, so be it.

Welcome to the New World Odor and
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Reply #6 posted 10/05/08 1:35pm

Paris9748430

Oh noez, it's just like I thought!!! Universities are just cesspools of radical left-wing ideals like "thought" and "book learnin"!!!

JERKIN' EVERYTHING IN SIGHT!!!!!
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Reply #7 posted 10/05/08 1:39pm

HiinEnkelte

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Paris9748430 said:

Oh noez, it's just like I thought!!! Universities are just cesspools of radical left-wing ideals like "thought" and "book learnin"!!!


yeah, mostly lol

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Reply #8 posted 10/05/08 1:49pm

HiinEnkelte

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oh really? you brag about the CAC back then when you once again were trying to run for something with no record of accomplishment, but now you and the media don't want to talk about it, and never even make mention of it?

fancy that.
[Edited 10/5/08 14:11pm]

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Reply #9 posted 10/05/08 1:54pm

wonder505

HiinEnkelte said:



oh really? you brag about the CAC back then when you once again were trying to run form something with no record of accomplishment, but now you and the media don't want to talk about it, and never even make mention of it?

fancy that.


what about this?
http://prince.org/msg/105...sg_6049478

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Reply #10 posted 10/05/08 2:05pm

deebee

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HiinEnkelte said:

deebee said:

The irony of posting this article is it actually raises my opinion and expectations of Obama! The CAC seems like it might well have been a very positive project.
biggrin


you might find it ironical, but i don't, even in light of this raising the esteem and expection that you have for obama.

i just want any opinion, not just for you but for america, to be based on an honest and thorough presentation of the facts by the media.

if it puts him at 70% approval, so be it.

Well, I do agree that a lot of news media is pretty circumscribed in its coverage, but I'm not really convinced that people are not getting 'the facts' on Obama; it's more that he's just quite a charismatic and popular candidate in a context where the current presidency is somewhat unpopular, and that the other campaign hasn't really landed many really heavy punches that would turn people away from him.

I don't know that many people would read this article as presenting them with really urgent and otherwise hidden facts. I mean, the slant is pretty apparent (these shady types "push[ing] radicalism", "recruit[ing] parents" to an implicitly toxic "political agenda", etc), and it seems like, as with a lot of this blogosphere-type material, you've got to really want to buy into that political viewpoint to be swayed by the argument. In the absence of that, there isn't really much to damn the guy here. In fact, as I say, quite the opposite: someone working in the community, involved in advocacy with and on behalf of pretty underprivileged parents, student, schools, etc - these are generally seen as good things by a lot of people.

"Traveler, there is no path. You make the path by walking..." - Antonio Machado
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Reply #11 posted 10/06/08 1:35am

foal30

these are generally seen as good things by a lot of people.

Yes, I think so.

why the big deal over Ayers? again, which candidate claims heroism by bombing a defenseless countries civilians? Where is the denouncement and repentance of his violent past? The hand of apology to Vietnam for the sins committed (no less then genocide) supposedly to defend freedom?

attempting to tie Obama into being a terrorist supporter is fine, and fair game. But look at the other candidate's history. One is covered in blood the other seems to have spent a lot of time actually attempting to help the poor.

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Reply #12 posted 10/06/08 6:41am

seekingtruth

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deebee said:

HiinEnkelte said:



you might find it ironical, but i don't, even in light of this raising the esteem and expection that you have for obama.

i just want any opinion, not just for you but for america, to be based on an honest and thorough presentation of the facts by the media.

if it puts him at 70% approval, so be it.

Well, I do agree that a lot of news media is pretty circumscribed in its coverage, but I'm not really convinced that people are not getting 'the facts' on Obama; it's more that he's just quite a charismatic and popular candidate in a context where the current presidency is somewhat unpopular, and that the other campaign hasn't really landed many really heavy punches that would turn people away from him.

I don't know that many people would read this article as presenting them with really urgent and otherwise hidden facts. I mean, the slant is pretty apparent (these shady types "push[ing] radicalism", "recruit[ing] parents" to an implicitly toxic "political agenda", etc), and it seems like, as with a lot of this blogosphere-type material, you've got to really want to buy into that political viewpoint to be swayed by the argument. In the absence of that, there isn't really much to damn the guy here. In fact, as I say, quite the opposite: someone working in the community, involved in advocacy with and on behalf of pretty underprivileged parents, student, schools, etc - these are generally seen as good things by a lot of people.


That is what is so sad. The fact that the public knows little about what this man is capable of actually doing, other than give a good speech, and they worship him as some saint.

They want to throw out the whole "associations" argument, but with so little accomplishment to speak of, there are more areas that must be scrutinized.

Here we have a guy who has had questionable, at best, associations and nobody really seems to care....even if that is all we have to judge him by.

True genius is knowing how little
you really know.

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Reply #13 posted 10/06/08 7:19am

wonder505

seekingtruth said:

deebee said:


Well, I do agree that a lot of news media is pretty circumscribed in its coverage, but I'm not really convinced that people are not getting 'the facts' on Obama; it's more that he's just quite a charismatic and popular candidate in a context where the current presidency is somewhat unpopular, and that the other campaign hasn't really landed many really heavy punches that would turn people away from him.

I don't know that many people would read this article as presenting them with really urgent and otherwise hidden facts. I mean, the slant is pretty apparent (these shady types "push[ing] radicalism", "recruit[ing] parents" to an implicitly toxic "political agenda", etc), and it seems like, as with a lot of this blogosphere-type material, you've got to really want to buy into that political viewpoint to be swayed by the argument. In the absence of that, there isn't really much to damn the guy here. In fact, as I say, quite the opposite: someone working in the community, involved in advocacy with and on behalf of pretty underprivileged parents, student, schools, etc - these are generally seen as good things by a lot of people.


That is what is so sad. The fact that the public knows little about what this man is capable of actually doing, other than give a good speech, and they worship him as some saint.

They want to throw out the whole "associations" argument, but with so little accomplishment to speak of, there are more areas that must be scrutinized.

Here we have a guy who has had questionable, at best, associations and nobody really seems to care....even if that is all we have to judge him by.


yes nobody gives a shit and nobody is falling for the republican's scare tactics anymore.

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Reply #14 posted 10/06/08 7:40am

deebee

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seekingtruth said:

That is what is so sad. The fact that the public knows little about what this man is capable of actually doing, other than give a good speech, and they worship him as some saint.

They want to throw out the whole "associations" argument, but with so little accomplishment to speak of, there are more areas that must be scrutinized.

Here we have a guy who has had questionable, at best, associations and nobody really seems to care....even if that is all we have to judge him by.

But "nobody really seems to care" because they're not very compelling allegations. There must be a bunch of ageing former Sixties radicals out there (former Black Panthers, etc) and it's not unlikely that one would come into contact with them if one were involved in grassroots community organisation. But it's just not a 'hot' issue, because none of those movements is a tangible political force nowadays, and your country's largely come to terms with the turbulence of the late Sixties: all the former pot-smokin' hippies are now Macbook owners working in the corporate sector (hell, one of them was your president for most of the Nineties!); and the former genuine radicals, such as the Panthers, can now be found as kindly, avuncular figures in baseball caps giving pep talks to bright-eyed, middle-class undergraduates in the nation's colleges.

Plus, even if those looking on are diehard Nixon-types that think that Vietnam was a noble quest, a country should support its president no matter what, and men's hair should not be grown past the shoulder, most credible accounts seem to point to only a passing association between Obama and this Ayers guy; and it's fairly obvious that all of the latter's radical activities were going on while the former was bouncing around his living room in short pants, listening to Signed, Sealed, Delivered.....

In short: no-one cares because it's a non-issue.

"Traveler, there is no path. You make the path by walking..." - Antonio Machado
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Reply #15 posted 10/06/08 8:13am

SUPRMAN

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HiinEnkelte said:

2freaky4church1 said:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin


i stopped reading Rolling Stone when i hit puberty about 20 years ago.
a few years before i stopped reading MAD magazine altogether.



I always suspected you were an intellectual elitist . . . . lol

Meanwhile, civic knowledge is enhanced by discussing public affairs, taking part in civic activities and reading about current events and history, the group said.


Which is why we have P & R!
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Reply #16 posted 10/06/08 8:15am

SUPRMAN

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HiinEnkelte said:

deebee said:

The irony of posting this article is it actually raises my opinion and expectations of Obama! The CAC seems like it might well have been a very positive project.
biggrin


you might find it ironical, but i don't, even in light of this raising the esteem and expection that you have for obama.

i just want any opinion, not just for you but for america, to be based on an honest and thorough presentation of the facts by the media.

if it puts him at 70% approval, so be it.



that's nice to hear but if so, why do you keep pushing Wright, Ayers, Rezko?
You don't think the country is aware of who they are?

Meanwhile, civic knowledge is enhanced by discussing public affairs, taking part in civic activities and reading about current events and history, the group said.


Which is why we have P & R!
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Reply #17 posted 10/06/08 10:40am

JellyBean

Dang, Hiin. You spreading the proganda like a [ Flame snip - Mach ] Oops. I mean, true fan G.W. Bush.

Keep reaching, buddy. Keep reaching.
[Edited 10/6/08 10:44am]

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #18 posted 10/06/08 11:02am

RodeoSchro

This doesn't pass the smell test - just like everything else you post.

To believe that the CAC is a radical organization is to believe that it's namesake, Walter Annenberg, was himself a radical.

If so, that would sure have been news to Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan:

Even while an active businessman, Annenberg had an interest in public service. After Richard M. Nixon was elected President, he appointed Annenberg as ambassador to the Court of St. James's in the United Kingdom. In 1969 Annenberg sold The Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily News, which he bought in 1957, to Knight Newspapers for US$55 million. After being appointed as ambassador, he became quite popular in Britain, eventually being knighted with the Order of the British Empire.

Annenberg led a lavish lifestyle. His "Sunnylands" winter estate in Rancho Mirage, California (near Palm Springs) hosted gatherings with such people as President Ronald Reagan and First Lady Nancy Reagan, Frank Sinatra, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby and Charles, Prince of Wales. It was Annenberg who introduced President Reagan to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, and the Reagans often celebrated New Year's Eve with the Annenbergs. Leonore Annenberg was named by President Ronald Reagan as the State Department's Chief of Protocol as well. Sunnylands covers 400 acres (1.6 km2) guard-gated on a 650-acre (2.6 km2) parcel surrounded by a stucco wall at the northwest corner of Frank Sinatra Drive and Bob Hope Drive; the property includes a golf course.[7] Annenberg established the Annenberg Schools for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Southern California. He became a champion of public television, acquiring many awards, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Reagan and the Linus Pauling Medal for Humanitarianism. In 1989, he established the Annenberg Foundation, and 1993, created the Annenberg Challenge, a US$500 million, five-year reform effort and the largest single gift ever made to American public education.


Click here to see a great picture of Annenberg and Reagan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Annenberg

Do you even bother to read the drivel you post?

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Reply #19 posted 10/06/08 12:22pm

2freaky4church
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You seem to forget that Ayers was never convicted. Why do you think he teaches now? There is a history of lefties being set up by the government, becasue they don't like their politics. Were the Weathermen overboard? Sure; Violence is not a good tool, unless you are fighting a police state.

Not saying he didn't do it, but why didn't the government have enough to convict him?

Counterpunch has an article by Alex Cockburn that says that McCain lied about his captivity in Vietnam, that the Vietnamese saved him, helped him get better and was treated quite well.

wildsign Wave your wildsigns high!! wildsign
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Reply #20 posted 10/06/08 12:32pm

HiinEnkelte

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RodeoSchro said:

This doesn't pass the smell test - just like everything else you post.

To believe that the CAC is a radical organization is to believe that it's namesake, Walter Annenberg, was himself a radical.

If so, that would sure have been news to Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan:

Even while an active businessman, Annenberg had an interest in public service. After Richard M. Nixon was elected President, he appointed Annenberg as ambassador to the Court of St. James's in the United Kingdom. In 1969 Annenberg sold The Inquirer and the Philadelphia Daily News, which he bought in 1957, to Knight Newspapers for US$55 million. After being appointed as ambassador, he became quite popular in Britain, eventually being knighted with the Order of the British Empire.

Annenberg led a lavish lifestyle. His "Sunnylands" winter estate in Rancho Mirage, California (near Palm Springs) hosted gatherings with such people as President Ronald Reagan and First Lady Nancy Reagan, Frank Sinatra, Bob Hope, Bing Crosby and Charles, Prince of Wales. It was Annenberg who introduced President Reagan to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, and the Reagans often celebrated New Year's Eve with the Annenbergs. Leonore Annenberg was named by President Ronald Reagan as the State Department's Chief of Protocol as well. Sunnylands covers 400 acres (1.6 km2) guard-gated on a 650-acre (2.6 km2) parcel surrounded by a stucco wall at the northwest corner of Frank Sinatra Drive and Bob Hope Drive; the property includes a golf course.[7] Annenberg established the Annenberg Schools for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania and the University of Southern California. He became a champion of public television, acquiring many awards, including the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Reagan and the Linus Pauling Medal for Humanitarianism. In 1989, he established the Annenberg Foundation, and 1993, created the Annenberg Challenge, a US$500 million, five-year reform effort and the largest single gift ever made to American public education.


Click here to see a great picture of Annenberg and Reagan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Annenberg

Do you even bother to read the drivel you post?



what a terrible terrible "argument" this is, beginning with your first premise.

barf

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Reply #21 posted 10/06/08 2:31pm

2freaky4church
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Noam Chomsky once was asked to speak at West Point, a major military training college. Noam is my hero but he has said things that I'm sure would make Barack Obama blush. Chomsky has said, albeit with evidence that America is a "leading terrorist state," so is Israel; Israel supplied funds to apartheide South Africa; "the best leaders are ones who are lazy and corrupt"; "if the Nuremberg standards were applied, every post world war 2 President would have been hanged."

Not only did Chomsky speak at West Point, but he spoke to a huge throng of mostly cadets; I'm sure most of them being quite right wing. Afterwards, the cadets gave him a plaque and posed for pictures.

Does this mean that the Cadets believe America is a terrorist state? Associations mean nothing. Free speech does.

Barack had to play a certain game or he would not be in politics now. That is the nature of reality--on the left and right.

wildsign Wave your wildsigns high!! wildsign
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Reply #22 posted 10/06/08 8:06pm

Flowers2

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wonder505 said:

yes nobody gives a shit and nobody is falling for the republican's scare tactics anymore.



lol it's like the McCain supporters just went into over drive with their smear campaigning lol.. you can feel the 'fear' from them .. lol .. nevermind the issues at hand that we're facing, just smear the opponent! .. falloff

Ñøthïñ' ©ömè§ Fø® F®ëè, Bäbÿ - heart ø® $$$
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Reply #23 posted 10/06/08 8:11pm

wonder505

Flowers2 said:

wonder505 said:

yes nobody gives a shit and nobody is falling for the republican's scare tactics anymore.



lol it's like the McCain supporters just went into over drive with their smear campaigning lol.. you can feel the 'fear' from them .. lol .. nevermind the issues at hand that we're facing, just smear the opponent! .. falloff


you noticed that too? in 2 days all kinds a irrelevant stuff coming out, in the midst of a serious financial crisis at that. it will only make them look more desperate.

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Reply #24 posted 10/06/08 8:12pm

RodeoSchro

HiinEnkelte said:

RodeoSchro said:

This doesn't pass the smell test - just like everything else you post.

To believe that the CAC is a radical organization is to believe that it's namesake, Walter Annenberg, was himself a radical.

If so, that would sure have been news to Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan:



Click here to see a great picture of Annenberg and Reagan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Annenberg

Do you even bother to read the drivel you post?



what a terrible terrible "argument" this is, beginning with your first premise.

barf


LOL, it's so "terrible" that you cannot address even a single point.

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Reply #25 posted 10/07/08 5:45am

JellyBean

2freaky4church1 said:

Noam Chomsky once was asked to speak at West Point, a major military training college. Noam is my hero but he has said things that I'm sure would make Barack Obama blush. Chomsky has said, albeit with evidence that America is a "leading terrorist state," so is Israel; Israel supplied funds to apartheide South Africa; "the best leaders are ones who are lazy and corrupt"; "if the Nuremberg standards were applied, every post world war 2 President would have been hanged."

Not only did Chomsky speak at West Point, but he spoke to a huge throng of mostly cadets; I'm sure most of them being quite right wing. Afterwards, the cadets gave him a plaque and posed for pictures.

Does this mean that the Cadets believe America is a terrorist state? Associations mean nothing. Free speech does.

Barack had to play a certain game or he would not be in politics now. That is the nature of reality--on the left and right.


Great points, 2freaky. Chomsky is my hero as well. I love that guy. I love his works. The guy is awesome.

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #26 posted 10/07/08 5:49am

JellyBean

According to GOP and Hiin's logic, Obama is a serial killer because his name was listed in the Chicago phonebook along with John Wayne Gacy.... biggrin

BTW, when Palin was dissing Obama, at a Florida rally, somebody yelled "kill him." She just smiled and kept talking. The shouter must be one of those "pro-life" family values that Hiin and the GOP just so love!!

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #27 posted 10/07/08 5:51am

Cloudbuster

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JellyBean said:

According to GOP and Hiin's logic, Obama is a serial killer because his name was listed in the Chicago phonebook along with John Wayne Gacy.... biggrin

BTW, when Palin was dissing Obama, at a Florida rally, somebody yelled "kill him." She just smiled and kept talking. The shouter must be one of those "pro-life" family values that Hiin and the GOP just so love!!


lol

"Shake yer reptile, baby!" stoned
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Reply #28 posted 10/07/08 1:06pm

lascantas

What is so radical about opposing racism and oppression?

Why is this considered "radical"?

I don't understand?

Also, I do think the American school system favors those of the "white" culture.

I definitely think the schools system could improve to be more culturally diverse since America is so culturally diverse?

I don't really get the problem here. I do understand about Ayers blowing up the buildings, but Obama never participated in that. He already said he did not like Ayers actions. So because Ayers is this extreme type, he does not have any good ideas at all?

Why can't Obama and Ayers disagree on some things, but work together to try to benefit their community.

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Reply #29 posted 10/07/08 1:23pm

MrSoulpower

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lascantas said:

What is so radical about opposing racism and oppression?

Why is this considered "radical"?

I don't understand?

Also, I do think the American school system favors those of the "white" culture.

I definitely think the schools system could improve to be more culturally diverse since America is so culturally diverse?

I don't really get the problem here. I do understand about Ayers blowing up the buildings, but Obama never participated in that. He already said he did not like Ayers actions. So because Ayers is this extreme type, he does not have any good ideas at all?

Why can't Obama and Ayers disagree on some things, but work together to try to benefit their community.



I agree. Ayers hasn't violated any laws in decades. And even back in the day, he fought for a good cause - against the war in Vietnam. Of course bombing buildings is not the solution and by no means justified. But the 1960s was a very reactionary time, and many young people believed that peaceful protest didn't work.

That reminds me of the story of this guy here:



In the late 1960s, he was a college student in Germany, who was roommates with key members of the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion), the terror organization that would later kill dozens of innocent Germans as a means of protest Germany's capitalist political ideology.
Although the guy himself never participated in those violent acts and he was never member of the RAF, he did engage in street combat with German police back in the early 1970s ...



... throwing stones at cops,destroying property ...



Years later, he became a member of Germany's green party, and in the mid-1980s the first green secretary of environment of the state of Hessen. In the late 1990s he rose to even more power and became vice chancellor and secretary of state in Gerhard Schroder's administration.

Ladies and gentlemen ... Joschka Fischer, one of the most respected political figures coming out of Germany since WWII.



Bottom line, Ayers is obviously a much respected local activist in Chicago today, and it seems self-righteous from the McCain campaign to say Obama should have never associated with him, when it would have been almost impossible to not associate with him. The point is, people change. The 1960s are over.
[Edited 10/7/08 13:24pm]

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