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PrintableOdysseyMiles said: Handclapsfingasnapz said: all scenarios above have one thing in common: you should know better than to not keep tabs on your stuff. if you don't want something to leak out, keep tabs on it and don't let it change hands/"grow legs" to begin with. it ain't nobody else's fault but your own.  [two wrongs and a right were here]man, i dig you, odyssey.  | |
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Whatever happens at housequake bootleg trading will continue. Not on housequake but on other sites known only through word of mouth or through e-mails, establishing a group of traders you can trust. | |
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Handclapsfingasnapz said: OdysseyMiles said: [two wrongs and a right were here]man, i dig you, odyssey. I dig you too, you rebel, you.  | |
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PhilG said: Whatever happens at housequake bootleg trading will continue.
yup. no matter how adamant p is about it, it ain't gonna go away anytime soon... 
it won't stop...cuz it can't stop... it don't know how to stop...uh, yeah...  | |
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OdysseyMiles said: Does it make sense that as long as people trade boots they are still encouraging the circulation/sale of them? People love to pat themselves on the back because they rabidly snatch up every boot they can get their hands on. You expect an artist to be flattered by that? Artists are not clowns that simply cow-tow for our entertainment. A true artist always wants to present their best to the public. As cruel and alienating and absolutely mind boggling as this may sound to some people, we all have to discern a certain level of respect here.
1) There are tons of Bootlegs out there ...it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop it..so why even try...instead he ought to embrace it and/or try to make money off of it. And the thing is is he's ailienating the fans in order to do it. 2)His Best?...you call ONA his best? It's because of releases like this one we continue. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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PhilG said: Whatever happens at housequake bootleg trading will continue. Not on housequake but on other sites known only through word of mouth or through e-mails, establishing a group of traders you can trust.
There's always AMP. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: Does it make sense that as long as people trade boots they are still encouraging the circulation/sale of them? People love to pat themselves on the back because they rabidly snatch up every boot they can get their hands on. You expect an artist to be flattered by that? Artists are not clowns that simply cow-tow for our entertainment. A true artist always wants to present their best to the public. As cruel and alienating and absolutely mind boggling as this may sound to some people, we all have to discern a certain level of respect here.  I agree 100% with you. | |
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superspaceboy said: OdysseyMiles said: Does it make sense that as long as people trade boots they are still encouraging the circulation/sale of them? People love to pat themselves on the back because they rabidly snatch up every boot they can get their hands on. You expect an artist to be flattered by that? Artists are not clowns that simply cow-tow for our entertainment. A true artist always wants to present their best to the public. As cruel and alienating and absolutely mind boggling as this may sound to some people, we all have to discern a certain level of respect here.
1) There are tons of Bootlegs out there ...it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop it..so why even try...instead he ought to embrace it and/or try to make money off of it. And the thing is is he's ailienating the fans in order to do it. 2)His Best?...you call ONA his best? It's because of releases like this one we continue. 1)I don't think P is alienating fans. He may be alienating people who don't respect his wishes concerning his art, but that's it. 2)I didn't call ONA his best. P may have thought it was the best he had to offer at the time. Actually, many fans who were wanting an all-piano album were thankful for it. What can a guy do when he's got millions of know-it-alls trying to tell him what to release? Enjoy your boots. Just know that P is justified in excercising his rights as an artist and a human being. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: superspaceboy said: 1) There are tons of Bootlegs out there ...it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop it..so why even try...instead he ought to embrace it and/or try to make money off of it. And the thing is is he's ailienating the fans in order to do it. 2)His Best?...you call ONA his best? It's because of releases like this one we continue. 1)I don't think P is alienating fans. He may be alienating people who don't respect his wishes concerning his art, but that's it. 2)I didn't call ONA his best. P may have thought it was the best he had to offer at the time. Actually, many fans who were wanting an all-piano album were thankful for it. What can a guy do when he's got millions of know-it-alls trying to tell him what to release? Enjoy your boots. Just know that P is justified in excercising his rights as an artist and a human being.  | |
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PurpleRein said: Dear Superfanboy....
How about looking at it this way. What ever it is that you do to earn your $$ to pay for your AOL account, cable line (whatever)..Lets say a fan of yours puts your work on the internet where people can get it for free. That's right, free. Guess who isnt going to get paid anymore Superfanboy?..That's right, you. The old Napster issue, remember?. Now, lets say that you did some work...lets say you paint pictures. You throw out the canvasses of the works you don't really like. You don't like them at all. Now the garbage man takes those canvasses and posts them on the internet for people to see and download to their printers. How would you feel?. Last question. Let's say you're a musician and there are concerts you've performed, or songs you've done in the studio, but aren't really done with. Your studio engineer sneaks a copy and posts it on the internet, How do you feel now Superfanboy? Pretty ticked off, right, because it's not what you wanted done with those songs. Those songs that came from your soul. Those songs that came to you because God gave you a gift. How would you feel? Be mature and think about it i guess superfanboy is me...I lost my space... 
I actually make music and give it out for free.  so no problem there.
But to your points... Point 1 - Internet free- If it gets the music exposure, then it's all good. Most that like it will buy it.  That's what I do.
Point 2 - Garbage - If someone wants my old crappy trash...have at it. If it's good...then folks will know that I am a genius and even my trash is cool. Point 3 - Unfinished songs/concerts - Concerts...I'd be taping those myself and sell em! Get ahead of the game. And unfinished songs? I'd be flattered that someone cared enough to hear something in the process. The finished product is still coming. See it's all perspective. And as MS HCFS pointed out watch what you do with your stuff and who you give it to. Prince, for being probably the most booted artist of our time (or one of them) really should sit down and think about how to get the better of the situation instead of pissing off his base. Trust me, if this is about Musicology DVD or something...he shouldn't worry as everyone who went to that show would probably be very interested in owning that show. And these are the folks who have NO clue about boots. The ones with the boots prolly wouldn't buy it anyway and prolly could not wait for it to come out on DVD (if it was ever to do so). I once got a cd of new and unfinished material of an up and coming artist I like. It was given to me as a gift...lovingly. A friend of mine found out about this (he knows the artist) and got pissed off saying that so and so had no right to do that that now everyone will have it. I said "Hey! she knows I like this guy...it was a gift, I'm not going to try and sell it or anything...I've been waiting to hear it...there's no harm, so Chut it!" I know not the same...but similar. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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PhilG said: Whatever happens at housequake bootleg trading will continue. Not on housequake but on other sites known only through word of mouth or through e-mails, establishing a group of traders you can trust.
That's what I am going to do. Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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I think Prince is just another sucker sometimes the beautiful ones, you always seem to loose | |
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OdysseyMiles said: superspaceboy said: 1) There are tons of Bootlegs out there ...it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop it..so why even try...instead he ought to embrace it and/or try to make money off of it. And the thing is is he's ailienating the fans in order to do it. 2)His Best?...you call ONA his best? It's because of releases like this one we continue. 1)I don't think P is alienating fans. He may be alienating people who don't respect his wishes concerning his art, but that's it. 2)I didn't call ONA his best. P may have thought it was the best he had to offer at the time. Actually, many fans who were wanting an all-piano album were thankful for it. What can a guy do when he's got millions of know-it-alls trying to tell him what to release? Enjoy your boots. Just know that P is justified in excercising his rights as an artist and a human being. Very well put. But... Let me just say I have boots, I like boots and so, I'm not saying that people who trade/buy them are evil or anything like that. My point is that when you do it so openly you get what you deserve. The fact that someone put up a web page dedicated to stolen material within a fan site is pretty bold considering that every Musicology Tour concert venue had signs that said no cameras, or recording devices allowed posted on the doors before you enter. Hell it may have even been printed on the tickets too. And for the people who only dig outtakes, if the engineer steals the tape you trusted him/her with or if he/she just wanted copy for their on private use and then someone takes it from them how is that the artists fault? How is possible for someone to watch over their stuff every nanosecond in that type of situation? (And yes I know in the past Prince has given tapes to women he was involved with who then turned around and passed them around, so no need to go there.) . [Edited 9/28/04 16:10pm] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
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Im kinda surprised at some of the responses to this subject. Prince doesnt owe us anything. I buy boots, so Im not gonna give some moral State of the Union. What he wants done with his shit is his prerogative. If he wants to release an album of burps and farts for $30 thats also his prerogative. If he doesnt wish to release the vault material then we are the ones who will be disappointed, but not "cheated" in any way. ITS HIS. Everyone on this and any other website would react the same if there work was stolen and sold for their personal gain. All of that being said, I purchase anything that I can get my hands on, so it is disappointing what he is doing to HQ and almost any other fan website. Although disappointed, I do not feel betrayed in any way. (Insert something clever here) | |
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DarkKnight1 said: Im kinda surprised at some of the responses to this subject. Prince doesnt owe us anything. I buy boots, so Im not gonna give some moral State of the Union. What he wants done with his shit is his prerogative. If he wants to release an album of burps and farts for $30 thats also his prerogative. If he doesnt wish to release the vault material then we are the ones who will be disappointed, but not "cheated" in any way. ITS HIS. Everyone on this and any other website would react the same if there work was stolen and sold for their personal gain. All of that being said, I purchase anything that I can get my hands on, so it is disappointing what he is doing to HQ and almost any other fan website. Although disappointed, I do not feel betrayed in any way.
Like a wonderful individual, that I wish was still here, said on NPGMC "You are fans of Prince. Not stockholders" [Edited 9/28/04 20:09pm] | |
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Well, I don't have any boots... but I now feel challenged to get some boots.
Wait a minute, maybe I do have boots and don't know it. Are boots selections from a concert? Like the " Bambi Live in Tokyo" video clip I have seen? I thought boots were like whole concerts or copies of released concert. [Edited 9/28/04 21:13pm] "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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prodigalfan said: Well, I don't have any boots... but I now feel challenged to get some boots.
Wait a minute, maybe I do have boots and don't know it. Are boots selections from a concert? Like the " Bambi Live in Tokyo" video clip I have seen? I thought boots were like whole concerts or copies of released concert. A bootleg (specifically referring to music/video) is a release that was not authorized by the artist. Specifically a bootleg is a CD/LP/DVD/Video of a concert or unreleased music. A pirate is a copy of an authorized release. | |
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PurpleRein said: Dear Superfanboy....
How about looking at it this way. What ever it is that you do to earn your $$ to pay for your AOL account, cable line (whatever)..Lets say a fan of yours puts your work on the internet where people can get it for free. That's right, free. Guess who isnt going to get paid anymore Superfanboy?..That's right, you. The old Napster issue, remember?. Now, lets say that you did some work...lets say you paint pictures. You throw out the canvasses of the works you don't really like. You don't like them at all. Now the garbage man takes those canvasses and posts them on the internet for people to see and download to their printers. How would you feel?. Last question. Let's say you're a musician and there are concerts you've performed, or songs you've done in the studio, but aren't really done with. Your studio engineer sneaks a copy and posts it on the internet, How do you feel now Superfanboy? Pretty ticked off, right, because it's not what you wanted done with those songs. Those songs that came from your soul. Those songs that came to you because God gave you a gift. How would you feel? Be mature and think about it I really don't need a river, so please stop crying one. Luv & Peace, Alex Clubbin' in Mpls/A Night w. Prince | |
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The bootlegs are apart of the Prince legacy just as much as his official releases and Prince knows it. Do you think the Black album was just some kind of executive decision change at the last minute? I think not. It was very well calculated and thus became the biggest, ‘must have’ bootleg of the time.
It is the sum of the whole that makes us admire his genius. Not just our admiration for 20 or so albums. I can only speak for myself here, but I started turning to the bootlegs in the late 90’s for two reasons. The first reason was because they were there and I really wanted to know more and hear more from Prince. The second reason was because his official output was, to be quite blunt, pretty shit. As far as I am concerned, it is the bootlegs COMBINED with the official stuff that has kept me interested in this freak and in my own small way contribute to the success of Musicology. But take away the bootlegs and I would have jumped ship in the late 90’s, bored and fed up with a freak that had lost his touch. And I think I can quite confidently say that if there were no circulating bootlegs at all, Princes fan base would be somewhat smaller than it is now. Maybe Prince should ask himself how successful Musicology would have been without his fan base. He would have never made it through the 90’s without us. The man is seriously confused about the whole issue. My god, there is no doubt in my mind that Prince has used the bootleg market to his own advantage in the past. He cant suddenly turn against it at a whim because he suddenly feels he doesnt need it. And to direct his displeasure at the very people that have helped him struggle through the past ten years is just downright stupid. By turning against the bootleg market, or more specifically his fans that have delved into the bootleg market, he is categorically stating that he only wants us to listen to his official releases. In my opinion, his official releases alone diminish his standing as a true genius, especially over the last decade. And I think that Prince thrives on the perception people have of him. It really doesn’t have anything to do with buying bootlegs or trading them. Go on Kazaa and type in Prince and see what comes up. The majority of it is official stuff. This is very different to bootlegging, this is pirating and is a completely different moral and financial argument altogether. But bootlegs are not for sale, never have been for sale and would otherwise be collecting dust and deteriorating in a vault somewhere. The fact that someone has got hold of them and is now selling/trading them unofficially does nothing except enhance the legacy of the artist. If he doesn’t want them out there to be discussed/traded/sold, then perhaps he should beef up his security and stop leaving stuff lying around to be picked up by a passer by. Or is that the real plan behind this whole charade? The bootlegs have been good for Prince and always will be. | |
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NouveauDance said: He was a fool to sue Uptown, they truly offered a service to the fans like no other.
I forgot everyone who he sued now, was it Uptown, Interactive Experience, The Prince Family.....? http://web.archive.org/we...eline.html | |
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Thanks for the link, Gav! ********************************************
Phantom, rough on roughnecks... Old Jungle Saying ******************************************** | |
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Ifsixwuz9 said: OdysseyMiles said: 1)I don't think P is alienating fans. He may be alienating people who don't respect his wishes concerning his art, but that's it. 2)I didn't call ONA his best. P may have thought it was the best he had to offer at the time. Actually, many fans who were wanting an all-piano album were thankful for it. What can a guy do when he's got millions of know-it-alls trying to tell him what to release? Enjoy your boots. Just know that P is justified in excercising his rights as an artist and a human being. Very well put. But... Let me just say I have boots, I like boots and so, I'm not saying that people who trade/buy them are evil or anything like that. My point is that when you do it so openly you get what you deserve. The fact that someone put up a web page dedicated to stolen material within a fan site is pretty bold considering that every Musicology Tour concert venue had signs that said no cameras, or recording devices allowed posted on the doors before you enter. Hell it may have even been printed on the tickets too. And for the people who only dig outtakes, if the engineer steals the tape you trusted him/her with or if he/she just wanted copy for their on private use and then someone takes it from them how is that the artists fault? How is possible for someone to watch over their stuff every nanosecond in that type of situation? (And yes I know in the past Prince has given tapes to women he was involved with who then turned around and passed them around, so no need to go there.) . [Edited 9/28/04 16:10pm] Someone on this site told me you rock, and they were right. You said exactly what I was gonna say about folks doing things so openly. It's like: We got this shit and we are gonna wave it in your face that we got this shit and too bad if you're mad about it. I will also not take the moral high ground. I own boots, some I would probably slap somebody's momma if they try to take them from me but most of the stuff I have sucks, hence the reason it has not been officially released. I'm trying to see this from some of you guys' point of view but this ain't that crucial to me. | |
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DarkKnight1 said: Im kinda surprised at some of the responses to this subject. Prince doesnt owe us anything. I buy boots, so Im not gonna give some moral State of the Union. What he wants done with his shit is his prerogative. If he wants to release an album of burps and farts for $30 thats also his prerogative. If he doesnt wish to release the vault material then we are the ones who will be disappointed, but not "cheated" in any way. ITS HIS. Everyone on this and any other website would react the same if there work was stolen and sold for their personal gain. All of that being said, I purchase anything that I can get my hands on, so it is disappointing what he is doing to HQ and almost any other fan website. Although disappointed, I do not feel betrayed in any way. Beautifully put. | |
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I have to say that the approach of Prince's lawyers to the Housequake issue sucks, it really does.
I guess the patronising tone irks me. And more than that, i'm angry because it feels like a slap in the face to people who drool over everthing the man releases. So the fuck what if a fan site wants to make a calendar with some photos? I think it's dumb business by Prince to demand removal of this sort of thing. For goodness sake go after the big fish and stop trying to catch the adoring minnows. I honestly don't believe it's true that every prince fan will just shrug his shoulders eventually and still buy everything. It's not always about the music. Prince demands that an absolutely loyal fan website removes all these pictures? That's low. What the hell does he lose? What sort of fan site can afford to be the beneficiary of a license for various pictures? What sort of fan site can bear the administrative burden of seeking out the rights to the various pictures? Plain as, he's being a brat. So am I, but fuck it. | |
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As an artist, I can totally understand why Prince is doing what he's doing. The irony is if I want to hear Xpectations and ONA, Chocolate Invasion, virtual B-sides, etc, I would have to buy a bootleg because I can't download anything on my computer. As a hardcore fan, I long to hear this music, but if I can't buy it in a store, I don't get to hear it, so I've missed out on a lot of good music apparently. I don't buy bootlegs, and I won't, so Prince is slowly losing me because lackluster releases like Musicology aren't going to keep me waiting much longer.
I got off point. I agree that he has the right to protect what is his. I just wish he would make it so that there wasn't a market for bootlegs by just releasing all of the "grooves and grooves up on the shelf." |
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TheFrog said: I have to say that the approach of Prince's lawyers to the Housequake issue sucks, it really does.
Did anyone ask Princeto use the pics for a calendar? And if he had said no, would people have used them against his wishes?I guess the patronising tone irks me. And more than that, i'm angry because it feels like a slap in the face to people who drool over everthing the man releases. So the fuck what if a fan site wants to make a calendar with some photos? I think it's dumb business by Prince to demand removal of this sort of thing. For goodness sake go after the big fish and stop trying to catch the adoring minnows. I honestly don't believe it's true that every prince fan will just shrug his shoulders eventually and still buy everything. It's not always about the music. Prince demands that an absolutely loyal fan website removes all these pictures? That's low. What the hell does he lose? What sort of fan site can afford to be the beneficiary of a license for various pictures? What sort of fan site can bear the administrative burden of seeking out the rights to the various pictures? Plain as, he's being a brat. So am I, but fuck it. | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: TheFrog said: I have to say that the approach of Prince's lawyers to the Housequake issue sucks, it really does.
Did anyone ask Princeto use the pics for a calendar? And if he had said no, would people have used them against his wishes?I guess the patronising tone irks me. And more than that, i'm angry because it feels like a slap in the face to people who drool over everthing the man releases. So the fuck what if a fan site wants to make a calendar with some photos? I think it's dumb business by Prince to demand removal of this sort of thing. For goodness sake go after the big fish and stop trying to catch the adoring minnows. I honestly don't believe it's true that every prince fan will just shrug his shoulders eventually and still buy everything. It's not always about the music. Prince demands that an absolutely loyal fan website removes all these pictures? That's low. What the hell does he lose? What sort of fan site can afford to be the beneficiary of a license for various pictures? What sort of fan site can bear the administrative burden of seeking out the rights to the various pictures? Plain as, he's being a brat. So am I, but fuck it. hiya. i honestly don't know if anyone asked Prince. I doubt it, because it's time consuming and it costs money to licence things (unless the idea was to go to Prince and ask for a freebie). I think the point is that these are not people who are trying to make money off prince, these are fan sites which are full of people devoted to this guy. I honestly think this sort of action against the fan sites, where the use of the pictures in question causes little or no loss to Prince (licence fees, maybe at a real stretch the argument that he would use the photos in an authorised calendar and people would buy that - ignoring the argument that, frankly, fans who are going to buy an authorised calendar anyway are going to buy it, period) and undoubtedly provides him with enormous exposure, is a silly move. i'm not disputing the fact that he / npgmc may own photos which others are using illegitimately. I just think in the context, the action is dumb. the boots are a whole other issue of course, and the legalities there i can't possibly comment on because I have no US legal experience.  | |
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3bogs said: TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: Did anyone ask Princeto use the pics for a calendar? And if he had said no, would people have used them against his wishes?
hiya. i honestly don't know if anyone asked Prince. I doubt it, because it's time consuming and it costs money to licence things (unless the idea was to go to Prince and ask for a freebie). I think the point is that these are not people who are trying to make money off prince, these are fan sites which are full of people devoted to this guy. I honestly think this sort of action against the fan sites, where the use of the pictures in question causes little or no loss to Prince (licence fees, maybe at a real stretch the argument that he would use the photos in an authorised calendar and people would buy that - ignoring the argument that, frankly, fans who are going to buy an authorised calendar anyway are going to buy it, period) and undoubtedly provides him with enormous exposure, is a silly move. i'm not disputing the fact that he / npgmc may own photos which others are using illegitimately. I just think in the context, the action is dumb. the boots are a whole other issue of course, and the legalities there i can't possibly comment on because I have no US legal experience. Thanks for the info. | |
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I think the problem is that the fans sometimes create better graphic materials than Prince's team. Perhaps the talk of the calendar seemed to pose a threat to him. If he feels threatened, perhaps he should employ the calendar designers to hook up a good one for him. I didn't see the calendar, so I am only speculating, but I have seen some fantastic graphics done on here and other sites by fans that could easily have been sold to other fans. Can't hate on other peoples' skillz! | |
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my thread thrives...once again Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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